Tormek Community

In the Shop => General Tormek Questions => Topic started by: RickKrung on December 13, 2017, 07:29:42 pm

Title: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: RickKrung on December 13, 2017, 07:29:42 pm
The motor on my very new T8 has shut down on its own a few times today.  Several times, it did so within seconds of it being turned on and a couple other times, after it had been running for short time. Breaker has not tripped and there are no other signs of electrical issues. 

Rick 
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on December 13, 2017, 07:57:32 pm
Rick,

This is definitely an issue for Tormek support. (support@tormek.se)

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: RickKrung on December 13, 2017, 10:53:19 pm
Rick,

This is definitely an issue for Tormek support. (support@tormek.se)

Ken

Thanks, that's what I have done.

Rick
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on July 22, 2018, 11:35:30 pm
Rick,

What was your response from support? Was your problem corrected?

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: RickKrung on July 23, 2018, 05:40:13 am
Rick,

What was your response from support? Was your problem corrected?

Ken

Ken,

Below my signature is their response.  I don't recall what I did other than I am certain I did not replace the switch.  I believe I did nothing and the problem has not recurred. 

Rick


"Hi Rick,
Sound like something is making the switch to shut down. This can be caused by many things but since it works now, I would guess there is something in the electrical lines inside or actually outside your house, the main line has spikes sometimes which can cause the switch to shut down. No common but we have had cases where we have measured machines like this before and there is nothing wrong with them. Some electrical companies have grafs online where you can see if this has happened.

Best Regards,
Stig Reitan

Many questions can be solved using our Forum
www.tormek.com/forum"
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on July 23, 2018, 01:59:31 pm
I understand how difficult it is to trouble shoot interrmittent trouble trouble from halfway around the world. I would think if voltage fluctuations were causing the problem with your Tormek that other electrical devices would also be effected. Methinks we still have a mystery........

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: RickKrung on July 23, 2018, 06:52:49 pm
I understand how difficult it is to trouble shoot interrmittent trouble trouble from halfway around the world. I would think if voltage fluctuations were causing the problem with your Tormek that other electrical devices would also be effected. Methinks we still have a mystery........

Ken

Perhaps, but not a mystery that I am concerned with at this point.  The issue occurred eight months ago, was very brief in duration/occurrence and has not occurred since. 

The circuit my T8 is on has had some behavior recently, where the GFI tripped without apparent problem and I was starting and hour drive to the nearest hardware store that had what I needed to replace the circuit breakers the GFI was discovered the GFI.  (The urgency was my internet was down [on that circuit] and it was Friday).

If it occurs again, I'll just replace the switch first, but (until saying "outloud" here) that does not seem to be on the horizon.

Cheers,

Rick
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Jan on July 23, 2018, 11:43:30 pm
In my understanding the switch used in my T7 machine is an electromagnetic switch.

Jan
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Grizz on July 23, 2018, 11:57:35 pm
Jan, you are correct. the T-8 also has a magnetic switch, meaning if power is lost it will not automatically come back on when power is restored. must press the start switch again.
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on July 24, 2018, 02:03:07 am
Here is an idea to test the power. Plug your Tormek into a three way adaptor. Plug a digital clock into one of the three plugs. (Do not install a battery in the clock.) If the Tormek shuts down and the clock starts flashing, your trouble is in the electric power. If the Tormek shuts down and the clock is unchanged, the culprit wiuld appear to be the Tormek.

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Jan on July 24, 2018, 11:36:13 am
Grizz, thaks for your assurance.  :)

Understanding how the electromagnetic switch works is important to understand its response to sags and swells of the delivered voltage.

The effect of a sag (dip) is usually easily noticeable than the one of a swell. Not only PC but also electromagnetic switches and contactors may be sensitive to voltage sags. All depends on the sag duration and change of the voltage amplitude. A sag longer than three cycles may be visible as a reduction of the output light.

Major cause of sags is wind and lightening.

Jan
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on July 24, 2018, 04:07:40 pm
Jan,

I understand about voltage fluctuations. They are a very real problem. When I had a local computer man put together my Windows 98 vintage computer, he extended the warranty from one to three years if I used an Uninterruptable Power Supply, which I did.

What puzzles me is that power fluctuations are not a new issue. If they were a problem for a Tormek, why are these the first two topics I have seen about them since 2009?

The present switches have been around for a long time. My first (later stolen) T7, purchased in2009 had the old switch. around three years later, the replacement T7 came with the new switch.

The Tormek is a relatively simple electrical appliance. To the best of my knowledge, it has no solid state electronic components. It should not be overly sensitive to voltage changes.

Voltage fluctuations are a world wide problem. If they are a problem for the Tormek, where are the hundreds of other effected posts?

I don't think voltage fluctuation is the problem. I would lean toward a problem with a batch of switches or overheating protection components. I think this issue warrants serious investigation by the Tormek staff.

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Jan on July 24, 2018, 05:02:51 pm
Ken, an electromagnetic switch works like a relay. Voltage sag causes decrease of the magnetic flux of the control coil, which may cause load contacts opening. It depends on the sag duration and change of the voltage amplitude and the response characteristic of the switch.

Jan
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on July 24, 2018, 09:30:17 pm
Nicely explained, Jan.

I am just taking a guess at why Tormek changed switches: I think the new switch may have been used to comply with a safety regulation requiring that a motor not be on automatically after a power failure. This is certainly a good thing with tools like high speed saws or any power tool with exposed sharp blades.

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Jan on July 24, 2018, 09:55:30 pm
Yes, Ken, I think you are correct.   :)

Jan
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Grizz on July 25, 2018, 05:00:46 am
Jan and Ken, you are both correct, even tho the electromagnetic switches are not new technology, they are being used more and more in electrical motor environments as a safety feature.
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Ken S on July 25, 2018, 02:15:44 pm
Jan,

With the new switches, if the machine shuts down, shouldn't it restart quickly (assuming regalar voltage has been restored)?

Ken
Title: Re: Motor Shutting Down
Post by: Jan on July 25, 2018, 03:24:43 pm
Ken, I have no detailed info concerning the switches used in Tormek machines, but the behaviour of my T7 tells me that it is an under voltage release and restart protection switch. Some switches offer also overload (thermal) protection.  :)

Jan