Tormek Community

In the Shop => Knife Sharpening => Topic started by: Ken S on July 17, 2018, 10:02:48 pm

Title: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Ken S on July 17, 2018, 10:02:48 pm
The Frontal Vertical Base I purchased from Knife Grinders (our own Wootz) arrived yesterday. It is impressive. It is large enough to be solid and compact enough to store easily. The quality of the machining is quite good.


I only had a few minutes with it. I believe it will prove valuable in getting rid of any slop in using the leather honing wheel.

Class A product and service, Wootz!

Ken
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Grizz on July 17, 2018, 11:33:11 pm
you will love it, simply because "it works".
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: SHARPCO on July 18, 2018, 01:10:45 am
Good job, Wootz!
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Hogdog6 on July 19, 2018, 06:46:31 am
How do I obtain one of those? I’ve been to his site but didn’t see anything for sale.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Ken S on July 19, 2018, 12:22:00 pm
Hogdog6,

Here is a link to the FVB page:

http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm

The page is listed as "Edge testing equipment and accessories”. I find the sales technique refreshingly different: Provide the customer with useful information on using the product. If the customer decides the product suits his needs, he will purchase it.

One thing I found confusing was the drop down cost with shipping menu (at least with an ipad). The down arrow brought up Australia and New Zealand. There is a third listing for International, however, it requires scrolling down to see it. It initially fooled me. I was prepared to pay the price shown in Australian Dollars, and pleased to see the lower number in US Dollars.

For a unique, useful, well machined product made on a small scale, I think the price is very fair.

I approached the design from the opposite direction. I devised a way to have a horizontal base with the edge leading, just like using a dry grinder or a lathe. My idea works very well on paper. It also works in a dry grinding situation using CBN or the two smaller Tormek diamond wheels (primarily designed for the T2). The only difficulty was using it wet....it caused a flood.  :(     

The vertical honing position seems very logical, especially for Wootz' sharpening technique. He sharpens in a sitting position using the vertical edge leading direction. Sitting would offer a notable increase in comfort for long sessions or working in a van. It would also provide the consistency of the same tool position for honing as for sharpening. Wootz' very impressive BESS sharpness numbers provide "the proof in the pudding" (English idiom meaning the proof).

Wootz has very cleverly coordinated the FVB with his set up applet. The standardized position for the FVB is with the two legs pushed all the way into the horizontal sleeves until the FVB contacts the Tormek frame. No measuring required for that part of the set up and very consistent. I am impressed.

Ken

Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: RickKrung on July 19, 2018, 05:05:37 pm
...snip...
I approached the design from the opposite direction. I devised a way to have a horizontal base with the edge leading, just like using a dry grinder or a lathe. My idea works very well on paper. It also works in a dry grinding situation using CBN or the two smaller Tormek diamond wheels (primarily designed for the T2). The only difficulty was using it wet....it caused a flood.  :(     

I am curious to find out just what you mean here "horizontal base with edge leading".  I am having trouble picturing it in my mind.  This suggests to me that you are running the Tormek in the opposite direction, but you post doesn't really suggest that.  Please elaborate. 

I am also curious how your procedure differs that it causes a flood. 

The vertical honing position seems very logical, especially for Wootz' sharpening technique. He sharpens in a sitting position using the vertical edge leading direction. Sitting would offer a notable increase in comfort for long sessions or working in a van. It would also provide the consistency of the same tool position for honing as for sharpening. Wootz' very impressive BESS sharpness numbers provide "the proof in the pudding" (English idiom meaning the proof).
...snip...

Ken

I sharpen on my T8 using the vertical USB and edge leading, from a sitting position.  I have mild neuropathy in my legs and so cannot stand for long periods without lasting pain.  I do a lot of things sitting when I can.  This is part of the reason I don't want to do machining things for hire. 

The sitting position I use is from the opposite side of the T8, so it is sort of in that "frontal" position.  I do have to reach over the T8 and at first, I had some trouble keeping the jig firmly on the USB, but now that I have developed the muscle memory, it isn't a problem anymore. 

I built a frontal vertical base earlier when it was discussed on the forum.  I look forward to using it and learning using the knife jigs with edge trailing.  I tried it a little with one knife and was impressed with the size of the burr.  Makes me wonder if by using the vertical position, more metal is removed than necessary getting to where the burr is detectable. 

Rick
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Ken S on July 20, 2018, 04:53:01 pm
Rick,

I purchased an extended support bar from forum member, Robin Bailey, of the UK. I have found it a useful tool. The bar is longer than the standard Tormek US-105, and the two legs are longer. I have not sharpened knives longer that eight inches (200mm), I can't comment on the longer length. I bought it to sharpen my Chinese cleaver. It was a wedding present from my best friend; keeping it well sharpened is important to me. The only Tormek method is freehand. Robin's extended support sharpens my cleaver.

The legs are long enough to insert it in the horizontal sleeves from the other dide of the Tormek. I wanted to duplicate the dry grinder position. It does this well, except that the lower position forces the water out of the trough. Although it does work with CBN and the smaller Tormek T2 diamond wheels used dry, I consider this as one of my several idea which doesn't work. I finally realized thatTormek has not lengthed the legs to keep them from positioning the support bar cutting into the edge with the leather honing wheel, a wise precaution. Do not try this at home!!!

Rick and I are the same vintage. I think I will probably be be doing more sharpening while sitting in the near future.

Ken
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on June 01, 2019, 05:30:39 pm
Maybe I'am late...  Sorry.

Does anybody have news from the VFB supplier. It seems most interesting to me.

Rgds.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: john.jcb on June 01, 2019, 10:05:58 pm
Maybe I'am late...  Sorry.

Does anybody have news from the VFB supplier. It seems most interesting to me.

Rgds.

It is available from Knife Grinders as listed at the top of this thread.

I obtained one a short time ago and my sharpness and consistently took a jump ahead.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Antz on June 01, 2019, 11:02:42 pm
I believe on the knife grinders website you can purchase a stripped down version of the FVB and attach your own separately purchased XB100. I guess they are waiting on parts from tormek but the stripped down version is available upon request. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on June 22, 2019, 03:00:53 am
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: wootz on June 22, 2019, 03:36:43 am
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

A couple of hundreds use our FVB with their Tormeks, all models, around the world.
Yet we encourage everyone to make the Frontal Vertical Base themselves, we can program Windows and MacBook/MacAir software for your home-made FVB, how to order the applet is on our website.

Our current FVB base is 25 mm thick, 50 x 107 mm; the legs are 190-200 mm.

Our historically first prototype was of wood; for Tormek T-7 we used to make it of the BGM-100 kit - for details see the thread
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=2583 (https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=2583)

More examples of home-made FVB: http://knifegrinders.com.au/FVB_self-made.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/FVB_self-made.htm)
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Josu V on June 22, 2019, 05:16:41 pm
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

Hi Erivan.
I´m going to tell you my own experience.

I use Tormek T8 about six months ago. At first I used it without FVB. Everything has to be said; with very good results.
But I´m very perfectionist, and I want to raise my level of sharpening.
After weeks and week of research, I found Woottz´s research. I understood that the "secret" of a good sharpening was in the removal of burrs (of course, in the technique of sharpening).
I bought a FVB from Wootz through its website. I also read his book and applied his deburring techniques.

Today, my sharpenings are better using the FVB. I have three leather wheels an always applied his Differential deburr technic.
I just sharpening my Yanagiba knife of Kai Shun and after sharpening I cut one smoking paper of Rizzla + without problems. This is a good sharpening for a 16 DPS sharpening.

I think that the price is absolutely lower than the results.

I hope I have helped
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Luke on June 24, 2019, 01:26:31 am
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.
Hi Erivan,
I purchased the FVB from Wootz a few months back and have to say its made the whole process so much easier . The angle setting software alone would have been worth the money as its so easy and accurate to use but add in the ability to totally remove the burr and I've gone from a nice sharp knife to a knife I can shave with that retains its sharpness . No squashing tomatoes anymore
 I am an ordinary guy living in the UK with aspirations to maybe make a small business venture out of sharpening some day . In my opinion its worth every penny  :)
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Ken S on June 24, 2019, 03:23:48 am
Add me to the list of satisfied VFB purchasers. I may look at the cost somewhat differently. Wootz has generously shared details for those interested in building their own VFB. I see the cost of the VFB as a fair price for a well designed and manufactured product. Hopefully the price includes a reasonable business profit. If this happens to support the excellent research Wootz is doing, I am pleased to contribute.

Ken
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Al on June 25, 2019, 08:34:01 pm
Here here. Ditto from me Ken.
It’s an absolute must and I’m always happy to support Wootz.
Sub 50’s on the Bess would never have been possible for me without these aids and Wootz generosity in sharing his knowledge
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Antz on June 25, 2019, 09:21:29 pm
I also agree. The value in the FVB is also in the knowledge that Wootz shares for free. I would still be sharpening everything by hand in the “Stone Age” if it wasn’t for the info he shares. A lot of people like to keep “trade secrets” but Wootz gave us the keys to successful sharpening. To me the price is worth the results. I would suggest save a little and get it when you can. That’s what I’m doing. I purchased software and paper wheel support from Wootz and now saving up for the fvb.

Antz
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on June 27, 2019, 10:24:46 pm
Hello there,
Thanks for all the comments.
It was great to read from you all.
As already mentioned, living in the EU doesn't make any good to importing goods from AU. Now let's step a bit forward.
Thanks to all the good advice I got from our mate at (no need to mention any name I guess :) ) http://knifegrinders.com.au I went to a local store (very local - 300 meters away from where I was born)  and asked if they could help.
The shop owner really seems to be a sympathetic guy and might agree to try and build an "EU made" VFB specially for myself.  I'm waiting for his answer...
 Cheers !
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on June 27, 2019, 11:08:41 pm
Hi Josu,

Thanks a lot for your comment, which adds to my (little) knowledge.

Would you please elaborate a bit more about your 3 leather wheels?

What are they for ? different size ? different honing compound ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Rgds

Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

Hi Erivan.
I´m going to tell you my own experience.

I use Tormek T8 about six months ago. At first I used it without FVB. Everything has to be said; with very good results.
But I´m very perfectionist, and I want to raise my level of sharpening.
After weeks and week of research, I found Woottz´s research. I understood that the "secret" of a good sharpening was in the removal of burrs (of course, in the technique of sharpening).
I bought a FVB from Wootz through its website. I also read his book and applied his deburring techniques.

Today, my sharpenings are better using the FVB. I have three leather wheels an always applied his Differential deburr technic.
I just sharpening my Yanagiba knife of Kai Shun and after sharpening I cut one smoking paper of Rizzla + without problems. This is a good sharpening for a 16 DPS sharpening.

I think that the price is absolutely lower than the results.

I hope I have helped
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Josu V on June 30, 2019, 10:27:15 am
Hi Josu,

Thanks a lot for your comment, which adds to my (little) knowledge.

Would you please elaborate a bit more about your 3 leather wheels?

What are they for ? different size ? different honing compound ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Rgds



Of course.
Following Wootz's explains, and bought two more leather wheels, and actually have three.
One with Tormek Honing Compound PA-70.
Other One with Diamond Compound 1 Micron
And other with one layer of Chromium Oxide, and a second layer with Diamond Compound 0.25 Micron.
Both of them are Tormek LA-220 Leather Honing Wheel.

First I proceed to sharpening the knife with one of the grinding wheels that I have. Depending on the quality and / or the kind of steel, I use from SG-250 to the Tormek Diamond wheels DF-250 and DE-250.

Then I use the first leather Wheel with Tormek honing compound in the same angle that the sharpening. I use the FVB and the APP for this.
Then, I use the second leather wheel with 1 Micron diamond compound and set the angle between 0.1 to 2 degrees more, depending on the kind of steel.
Two slow and soft passes.
Then, I use the last honing wheel one more pass in the same angle as the second.
And finally,  I set the initial angle again and one more pass very slowly and very softly.

Is important to clean the knife between different leather wheels in order to prevent cross contamination between different honing compounds.

I´m note sure if this procedure is exactly the best but the results are fantastics.
Probably, Mr. Wootz will be able to correct something to me, but that is the procedure that I have understood after reading a lot of what he has written and after reading his book.
Please note that the English language has some difficulties for me and I may not have understood everything correctly.

Regards
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: wootz on June 30, 2019, 11:26:29 am

Following Wootz's explains, and bought two more leather wheels, and actually have three. Both
One with Tormek Honing Compound PA-70.
Other One with Diamond Compound 1 Micron
And other with one layer of Chromium Oxide, and a second layer with Diamond Compound 0.25 Micron.
Both of them are Tormek LA-220 Leather Honing Wheel.

First I proceed to sharpening the knife with one of the grinding wheels that I have. Depending on the quality and / or the kind of steel, I use from SG-250 to the Tormek Diamond wheels DF-250 and DE-250.

Then I use the first leather Wheel with Tormek honing compound in the same angle that the sharpening. I use the FVB and the APP for this.
Then, I use the second leather wheel with 0.1 Micron diamond compound and set the angle between 0.1 to 2 degrees more, depending on the kind of steel.
Two small and soft passes.
Then, I use the last honing wheel one more pass in the same angle as the second.
And finally,  I set the initial angle again and one more pass very slowly and very softly.

Is important to clean the knife between different leather wheels in order to prevent cross contamination between different honing compounds.

I´m note sure if this procedure is exactly the best but the results are fantastics.
Probably, Mr. Wootz will be able to correct something to me, but that is the procedure that I have understood after reading a lot of what he has written and after reading his book.
Please note that the English language is has some difficulties for me and I may not have understood everything correctly.

Regards

Perfect. Thank you for sharing, Josu
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Drilon on June 30, 2019, 06:52:13 pm
Hello Josu, a very clear and useful description of working with three leather wheels as suggested by our genius wootz.

Just to avoid a confusion: In the list of the three compound used you correctly list diamond compound 1 micron. Later in the text you write 0.1 micron for the compound for the second leather wheel.

I also like this sharpening method with the three leather wheels!

Regards
Drilon


 
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Josu V on June 30, 2019, 09:06:08 pm
Hello Josu, a very clear and useful description of working with three leather wheels as suggested by our genius wootz.

Just to avoid a confusion: In the list of the three compound used you correctly list diamond compound 1 micron. Later in the text you write 0.1 micron for the compound for the second leather wheel.

I also like this sharpening method with the three leather wheels!

Regards
Drilon

Sorry.  It has been a mistake.
Corrected!  Thanks for the advice  :)
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Nik3 on July 04, 2019, 11:20:38 pm
Hello fellow tormeker

Im wondering on how can I tell if I have deburred the bevel ?
I don't have edgeonup. So can't get help From it.
Is it just to test one angle first and if not working then try an even greater angle?
Is there any "easier" way to know at what angle to deburr it other then trial and error?

Best regards
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: wootz on July 05, 2019, 02:35:42 am
Hello fellow tormeker

Im wondering on how can I tell if I have deburred the bevel ?
I don't have edgeonup. So can't get help From it.
Is it just to test one angle first and if not working then try an even greater angle?
Is there any "easier" way to know at what angle to deburr it other then trial and error?

Best regards

While it is not easy to detect wire edge in hard alloy high-end knives without special equipment, it is relatively simple in mainstream knives.
Please see this thread:
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3954 (https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3954)
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Nik3 on July 05, 2019, 09:41:22 am
Thank you wootz, great reading like normally.

So I should start with a low deburring angle (0.5°?) And then test with the flourocarbon.
What jumps do you recommend to take between each increase?
And if it goes to high and round the Apex then it will just not cut as easily anymore?
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: wootz on July 05, 2019, 04:24:09 pm
We've done all that hard work to make it simple for you.

The Differential Honing is minimum 2-step, but better 3-step.

First hone away the bulk of the burr at the edge angle so that on the apex you have a feather burr or wire edge.
The edge set on #1000 is deburred with 3-6 micron honing compound like Tormek honing paste. But the edge apexed on a coarser wheel requires a coarser honing compound of 6-10 micron, like Autosol or Green Rouge etc.

Then de-root the burr at a higher angle with 1-micron diamonds; the majority of knife steels are done this way:
  - Stainless steel mainstream knives HRC <= 55 at + 2 degree higher;
  - Stainless steel quality knives HRC 56-58 at + 1.6 degree higher;
  - Premium kitchen knives at + 0.4 to 0.8 degree higher
  - Tool and wear-resitant steels at + 0.4 degree higher;
  - Steels listed in our book as prone to "negative burr" - at the edge angle.

Finishing cleanup:
Quality knife steels we do with 0.5/0.25-micron diamonds and chromium oxide;
Lower-end steels on a plain hanging leather strop w/o any honing compound.

Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Gary@QSS on July 05, 2019, 08:51:23 pm
Hello fellow sharpeners,
First I want to introduce myself as I am new to the forum. I’m Gary and USA based, residing in the Dallas TX area. I have lurked and read for some time now being ever appreciative of the knowledge I’ve gained here. This is a great site, and I’m thankful to be a member.

I have purchased the FVB from the folks at Knife Grinders (fine piece of high-quality equipment!) and set it up carefully following the accompanying instructions. I’ve triple checked everything and am confident it is set up properly. I have also downloaded the applet for calculating the settings.

The issue I want to ask about is the fact that there is a consistent 4 degrees difference in the angle as set using the FVB applet and the angle as read from the Tormek Angle Master. Said another way, I set up using the applet [T-8, 140 mm to blade edge, 18 degree angle, 97.64 mm support height], but then when I check the blade angle with the Angle Master it says 22 degrees.

I’m not sure if this is normal accuracy or not. I suspect the Angle Master is probably +/- one degree at best, not sure what accuracy is on the FVB. What should I do if I want to sharpen at 18 degrees, trust the FVB or split the difference? I don’t have a laser protractor for verification.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for having me to this forum!

Gary
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Antz on July 06, 2019, 12:30:04 am
Welcome to the Forum Gary,

If you are 100% certain you have set up the FVB correctly and input the correct information into the applet (blade protrusion, grinding wheel diameter), then I would trust the applet. Watching Wootz YouTube videos he checks his bevels with a laser protractor and I’ve never seen him be off by even 1 degree. I also use the applets and although I don’t have a laser protractor I believe it to be spot on.
 Another thing with the angle master is it’s not easy to set an exact wheel diameter setting when adjusting for wheel ware. The applet is more precise.

Antz
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Tesla on July 06, 2019, 02:52:58 am
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Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Gary@QSS on July 06, 2019, 04:03:01 pm
Welcome to the Forum Gary,

If you are 100% certain you have set up the FVB correctly and input the correct information into the applet (blade protrusion, grinding wheel diameter), then I would trust the applet. Watching Wootz YouTube videos he checks his bevels with a laser protractor and I’ve never seen him be off by even 1 degree. I also use the applets and although I don’t have a laser protractor I believe it to be spot on.
 Another thing with the angle master is it’s not easy to set an exact wheel diameter setting when adjusting for wheel ware. The applet is more precise.

Antz

Thanks! That was pretty much my thinking. I'm certain things are set up correctly. All measurements were made with a digital caliper, and we know the trig don't lie. I had not thought about Wootz checking with the laser protractor as we have seen him do...good point.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: john.jcb on July 06, 2019, 05:25:52 pm
Double check your wheel diameter setting in the applet. The grinding wheel is not exactly 250 mm but this should not result in the variation you are seeing.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Gary@QSS on July 06, 2019, 06:23:58 pm
Double check your wheel diameter setting in the applet. The grinding wheel is not exactly 250 mm but this should not result in the variation you are seeing.

Thanks John, I actually measured the wheel diameter with a digital caliper. It was spot on at 250 mm.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: wootz on July 07, 2019, 01:02:00 am
For grinding into the wheel, as normally people do on Tormek,  you need our "Grinding Angle Setter" software for Tormek. Newstarters may confuse these two applets and mistakenly go for the FVB applet.
Function is different -  the "Grinding Angle Setter" is for grinding into the wheel in the normal Tormek position, while the "Frontal Vertical Base" is for grinding edge-trailing and honing on the leather wheel in front of the Tormek. The "Frontal Vertical Base" is a free application coming with the Frontal Vertical Base attachment, while the "Grinding Angle Setter" is  a paid software for Tormek.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Gary@QSS on July 07, 2019, 03:05:10 am
For grinding into the wheel, as normally people do on Tormek,  you need our "Grinding Angle Setter" software for Tormek. Newstarters may confuse these two applets and mistakenly go for the FVB applet.
Function is different -  the "Grinding Angle Setter" is for grinding into the wheel in the normal Tormek position, while the "Frontal Vertical Base" is for grinding edge-trailing and honing on the leather wheel in front of the Tormek. The "Frontal Vertical Base" is a free application coming with the Frontal Vertical Base attachment, while the "Grinding Angle Setter" is  a paid software for Tormek.

Yes sir...I believe I'm using the correct software. You sent it to me with the FVB. The file name as extracted is "FVB_Edge_Angle_Setter.application", and the name at the top of the applet for data entry says Frontal Vertical Base for Tormek. I also downloaded the software from the App Store to my i-phone. That applet is titled "KG FVB Angle Setter (Frontal Vertical Base applet)".

I've cross checked both applets, i.e., the one sent me with the FVB purchase and the one from the App Store. They give me the same results, and I am grinding edge-trailing from the front of the Tormek (not into the wheel in the normal Tormek position).

I believe all is good. If not, please tell me so.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Josu V on July 07, 2019, 05:16:58 pm
To corroborate the accuracy of the app ...

I have a Laser Protractor from Catra. I use it to check some knives and runs perfectly. Sometimes I can appreciate between 0.3 to 0.5 degrees of difference but I think that the problem is the accuracy of positioning of the Universal Support (in low-end knives in low-end knives I do not give importance to half a degree .)
Most of the time I used to check original angle in order to maintain it, and I've never seen anything weird.

Is important to check the diameter of the grinding wheel; I think that this can would be a cause of errors.

Regards
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on July 30, 2019, 10:58:40 pm
Hi to all community members,
I am currently designing and working on my own home-made FVB, based on all the wise advice I got (so far) from the community.
(Sorry, Wootz, would have loved to buy from you, but all in all, considering i'm living in the EU, the bottom line figure was...well...)
Here is a picture of my "raw material" : 1 Tormek XB100, some hardwood, and 2 threaded rods with the nuts that go with them. (sorry the rods are already soldered to the nuts, I forgot to take a picture before they were).
I'm planning to drill 12mm holes in one slice of the hardwood, then place the rods inside and carve some place for the bolts in another slice of hardwood, both pieces of hardwood being exactly the size of XB100.
Then glue/bolt both pieces and attach XB100.
I will update you when progressing.
Cheers.
 
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Ken S on July 31, 2019, 01:31:18 pm
I purchased a FVB from Wootz. The price is a combination of good design, quality machining, and shipping. (In my case, from Australia to the US.) The price is substantial, but so is the product. The FVB will give you trooper service as long as your Tormek. The price also reflects low volume. The VFB is not mass produced.

When considering the price, be sure to convert it into your local currency. A strong US dollar lessened the blow for me.

Wootz has been very generous in sharing information about making your own VFB. His research has benefitted the whole sharpening community, from those who strive for the perfect edge to those who just want their farmers market sharpening to be a cut above. (Nothing negative implied.)

 Thanks, Wootz.

Ken
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on July 31, 2019, 07:47:39 pm
I couldn't agree more, Ken.

Wootz seems to me a as a very generous person, willing to share his knowledge for everyone to enjoy and improve.

I am really thankful, as the design I'm working on is (mainly) inspired by what he did.

Thanks Wootz !



I purchased a FVB from Wootz. The price is a combination of good design, quality machining, and shipping. (In my case, from Australia to the US.) The price is substantial, but so is the product. The FVB will give you trooper service as long as your Tormek. The price also reflects low volume. The VFB is not mass produced.

When considering the price, be sure to convert it into your local currency. A strong US dollar lessened the blow for me.

Wootz has been very generous in sharing information about making your own VFB. His research has benefitted the whole sharpening community, from those who strive for the perfect edge to those who just want their farmers market sharpening to be a cut above. (Nothing negative implied.)

 Thanks, Wootz.

Ken
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on July 31, 2019, 08:13:29 pm
I don't have much time these days to work on this project (have to go to work to earn our food  ;) )

Still, what I did this evening was to grind (grit 80) the soldered nuts that became heads of the "bolts"

To be followed...



Hi to all community members,
I am currently designing and working on my own home-made FVB, based on all the wise advice I got (so far) from the community.
(Sorry, Wootz, would have loved to buy from you, but all in all, considering i'm living in the EU, the bottom line figure was...well...)
Here is a picture of my "raw material" : 1 Tormek XB100, some hardwood, and 2 threaded rods with the nuts that go with them. (sorry the rods are already soldered to the nuts, I forgot to take a picture before they were).
I'm planning to drill 12mm holes in one slice of the hardwood, then place the rods inside and carve some place for the bolts in another slice of hardwood, both pieces of hardwood being exactly the size of XB100.
Then glue/bolt both pieces and attach XB100.
I will update you when progressing.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on August 07, 2019, 05:16:48 pm
I finally took some time to complete the job.

Here are some pictures of how I did build my own version of the FVB.

Thanks to all of you for bringing in the ideas and pictures that inspired me !
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Erivan on August 07, 2019, 05:21:54 pm
And I forgot to mention : I already tested it and it works just fine !

The sharpness I could reach using it is much better than what I could do free hand, no doubt about it.

Thanks again to all of you for this wonderful idea.

Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: PaGorg on October 13, 2019, 11:57:10 pm
Does the Universal Support have the need to go all the way down when the FVB is in the inserted position?
My home made FVB is so shallow the Universal Support hits the Tormek housing about half way down.


Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: RickKrung on October 14, 2019, 04:40:28 am
It may partially depend on how it is built.  But, I think what you describe occurs with mine also.  The "legs" of the USB that extend below the FVB run into the body of the T8 case.  Because all of the usage I make of it, the USB is low enough that those legs will always hit the case, so that is the closest the USB can get to the grindstone/honing wheel.  That has never been a problem, as when the USB is in that close, it is closer than I've needed for anything.  Typically, with knives, my USB is well away or if in close like that, it is higher to make the projection of the jig work.
(https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3685.0;attach=3819)

That said, I had thought of making the bar that mounts the 12mm legs more narrow, but even that would not change that the legs of the USB sticking down would still hit the case, so it would not help to get the USB any closer.  Actually, on looking at my photo, it appears the rectangular tubing that I used hits the case before or about the same time at the USB legs, so no amount of narrowing of it would do not good. 

Rick
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: PaGorg on October 17, 2019, 07:15:56 pm
Thank you for your answer, Rick.
You're correct, it's the same thing that happends to yours, the legs runs into the body of the Tormek. I guess if it ever becomes a problem I could allways mount a stop collar or a nut to give the FVB a stopping point before the legs hit the body.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: RickKrung on October 17, 2019, 09:16:53 pm
...snip...
My home made FVB is so shallow the Universal Support hits the Tormek housing about half way down.

Home made?  I am interested in what you did.  Your photo shows what looks to me like a cast part as your FVB mount.  It also appears to be a smaller piece that mounts one each end of the USB clamp. 
(https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3685.0;attach=3829)

Could you post some other views of your FVB mount - the part that attached to the USB clamp and had the 12mm rods extending out, please? 

Rick
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: RichColvin on October 17, 2019, 09:23:58 pm
Rick beat me to the punch :  I wondered the same thing.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: PaGorg on October 18, 2019, 07:26:18 pm
I couldn't find square tubing or aluminium block in the right size, so I decided to try clamping the legs directly to the XB-100.

I found these "12mm linear rail shaft support" on AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32336816419.html

Drilled and tapped four M5 holes in the XB-100 and screwed the clamps in place.

Used a "12x300 linear shaft" in one of the clamps and a threaded bar from a local store in the other:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32336820800.html

Time will tell if it's solid enough  :)
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: smurfs on October 18, 2019, 08:41:39 pm
PaGorg, that is really a clever and cost effective solution. Thanks for sharing.

My guess is it will be strong enough but if you find it is not you have the option of mounting the SHF12 Flange Mounts to a 107mmx50mm backing plate and then mount the XB-100 to that plate using the existing 4 holes (or perhaps that's going over the top :)).
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Jan on October 19, 2019, 10:58:45 am
PaGorg, simple, clever and inexpensive solution. Thanks for sharing. I am almost sure it will work fine.  :)

For grinding angle setup you can use one of several free spreadsheets available on this forum. My excel spreadsheet entitled "KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1" enables to calculate the wheel-support distance for given wheel radius, projection length and bevel angle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1

It was discussed several times here, e.g.:
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3320.msg19878#msg19878

Jan
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: PaGorg on October 20, 2019, 12:59:16 am
Thanks, Jan. I'll have a look your spreadsheet.
Right now I'm trying out the "TormekCalc" spreadsheet by 'jvh', and it seems to work great.
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Jan on October 20, 2019, 09:01:05 am
TormekCalc - Excel spreadsheet is quite sophisticated script. I recommend it!

I have checked the numerical accuracy of TormekCalc by calculating the height of the USB above Tormek housing and also the distance between the USB and the wheel surface. I can confirm that TormekCalc results are identical with my results with an accuracy of 0.001 mm.

Jan
Title: Re: Frontal Vertical Base
Post by: Morne1312 on October 24, 2019, 09:00:55 am
I Received my FVB Yesterday after waiting in pure anticipation for what seemed like a month but was actually a week. The postal system sent it back and forth and after tracking it through numerous phone calls I drove 60kilometers to go and collect it in a whole different town......

But never the less I got it, and after using some very good advice from Wootz via mails I have at last with the help of Tormek Diamond wheels and the FVB achieved the next level in sharpness compared to what I was used to. Still have a long way to go to get extra felt wheels and various compound but from what I have I have at least achieved hair splitting sharpness!!!


Thank you so much Wootz for all the effort in getting the FVB to me as well as the advice. So much appreciated!