Tormek Community

In the Shop => General Tormek Questions => Topic started by: Ken S on August 03, 2018, 02:29:46 am

Title: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 03, 2018, 02:29:46 am
My Multi Base-100 arrived today. (Mine was not part of the kit with the three diamond wheels.)

At first glance I am impressed. It is made of machined zinc, and definitely has a next generation Tormek look and feel. I have noticed that Tormek often incorporates innovations from one jig into another. In this case, Tormek borrowed the much improved jig setting knob from the new 186 gouge jig. The machined zinc top from the T4 and T8 reappears as the two support legs being integral parts of the zinc base, nothing to go out of alignment or loosen.

The locking knobs on the sleeves can be attached on either the front or the back. This base is very flexible. The platform can be rotated 270°. This base will become increasingly useful with familiarity. It is definitely not a one trick pony.

The Multi Base-100 is well designed and well machined. It seems an excellent complement to the three new diamond wheels with side grit.

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Grizz on August 05, 2018, 02:33:26 pm
I got a tracking number for the wheels and base yesterday ! wont be long now to try the new diamonds !
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 05, 2018, 06:19:45 pm
Grizz,

You will like your new diamond wheels and Multi Base.

Yesterday I reshaped a one inch turning skew chisel. Almost all of the time I am not a fan of the
 BGM-100 and a dry grinder. My opinion usually changes fifteen minutes into a major reshaping project. Yesterday I started with the DC-250 coarse diamond wheel. The 360 grit wheel definitely cuts very well. In my initial use, it easily cuts as well as a 220 grit SGO or SB. Yesterday, after a long, frustrating time, I switched to my 80 grit CBN wheel, thinking it would cut faster. To my surprise, it did not.

This is only a one time experience, with very loose controls. I would not draw any definitive conslusions from it.  I only mention it to show why I am impressed with the DC-250. I have the same impression of the DWC-200, designed for the T2. The diamond wheels cut very well. As much as I like the SG, I think diamond wheels are the future.

The Multi Base-100 is fascinating and innovative. I see a lot of potential uses for it, uses we have not even imagined yet. I look forward to seeing what happens, and hope you do, too. Please post your observations.

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Grizz on August 06, 2018, 10:06:19 pm
now if I could only find the updated WM-200 to assist with the side grinding !
I contacted Advance Machinery about it but haven't heard back yet. will let everyone know when I hear something.
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: cbwx34 on August 06, 2018, 10:25:43 pm
now if I could only find the updated WM-200 to assist with the side grinding !
I contacted Advance Machinery about it but haven't heard back yet. will let everyone know when I hear something.

Do you have an “old” WM-200?  Just add 18°...

Quote from: Tormek
Setting the edge angle

When setting the sharpening angle with the updated WM-200 AngleMaster, use the top angle scale, marked with MB-100. When setting the sharpening angle with the previous WM-200, add 18 degrees to your preferred angel. Example: If you are going the sharpen a chisel to a 25-degree angle, add 18 degrees on the Angle Master, i.e. 43 degrees. Always set the wheel diameter compensator on WM-200 to 250 mm when sharpening with the MB-100.
https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/accessories/other-accessories/mb-100-multi-base/
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 07, 2018, 06:20:59 am
I would be interested in learning how the eighteen degree compensation was ascertained. That's a good question for support now that the long Swedish summer holiday is ending.

(I suspect we will probably get a more complete answer from Jan and the forum math team. I look forward to their reports!)

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: cbwx34 on August 07, 2018, 02:30:04 pm
I would be interested in learning how the eighteen degree compensation was ascertained.

Set the Wheel Diameter to 250mm and loosen the angle side... set it on a flat surface, and the angle side will move and point to 18°.  ;)



Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 07, 2018, 03:03:39 pm
Good sleuthing, CB.  I have been spending too much of my limited shop time setting up my wood lathe recently.

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Grizz on August 09, 2018, 12:46:18 am
I heard from Advance Machinery today. the lady quoted the new updated WM-200 will be available in October.
 Yes CB, I read that the add 18 degrees to the wm 200 will give you the right angle ! not a problem, just will be easier when we can get the updated version.
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 09, 2018, 01:56:51 am
Grizz,

The original Anglemaster, the WM-100, is long discontinued. The WM-200 really is a substantial improvement. Tormek traditionally assigns a new number desighation to improved products. They ahould do that with the WM-200, maybe WM300 or WM201.

In fact, to really do things right, I would like to see an Anglemaster with only the numbers for side grinding. It would be a simple modification and would eliminate confusion.

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: marie on August 09, 2018, 09:41:53 am
Grizz,

The original Anglemaster, the WM-100, is long discontinued. The WM-200 really is a substantial improvement. Tormek traditionally assigns a new number desighation to improved products. They ahould do that with the WM-200, maybe WM300 or WM201.

In fact, to really do things right, I would like to see an Anglemaster with only the numbers for side grinding. It would be a simple modification and would eliminate confusion.

Ken

Hi Ken,

The MB-100 scale on the updated AngleMaster is relevant only when the user is to sharpen with the MB-100, otherwise it is not. The updated version of the AngleMaster will therefore still be called WM-200.

Kind regards,
Marie - Marketing Manager
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Jan on August 09, 2018, 01:04:25 pm
I would be interested in learning how the eighteen degree compensation was ascertained.

Set the Wheel Diameter to 250mm and loosen the angle side... set it on a flat surface, and the angle side will move and point to 18°.  ;)

Ken, the 18° compensation correspond to the wheel diameter setting 250 mm.

When you set the wheel diameter to 200 mm than the compensation will be 20°. This is much easily memorisable, we use WM-200, set 200 mm diameter and add 20° to our preferred angle.  :)

This approach would be suitable for the updated version of the WM-200 also, because the scale ticks could be completely shared.

Jan
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 09, 2018, 01:21:24 pm
Hi, Marie.

I am pleased to see you posting. This must be an exciting time for the Tormek Marketing Department. Even if the new diamond wheels had only the traditional edge cutting capability, they would be a major innovation. The ability of doing controlled flat grinding on the side will open up whole new potential sharpening options for Tormek users. I look forward to studying both much forum conversaton and instructional support from Tormek.

In my opinion, the Anglemaster designation is a very minor issue. What I do find important is that Tormek has provided the users with the modified scale to accurately use the Anglemaster with side grinding. The addition of the modified side grinding scale will do much to aid user proficiency and satisfaction with the Multi Base and diamond wheels.

kind regards,

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 09, 2018, 02:05:27 pm
I would be interested in learning how the eighteen degree compensation was ascertained.

Set the Wheel Diameter to 250mm and loosen the angle side... set it on a flat surface, and the angle side will move and point to 18°.  ;)

Ken, the 18° compensation correspond to the wheel diameter setting 250 mm.

When you set the wheel diameter to 200 mm than the compensation will be 20°. This is much easily memorisable, we use WM-200, set 200 mm diameter and add 20° to our preferred angle.  :)

This approach would be suitable for the updated version of the WM-200 also, because the scale ticks could be completely shared.

Jan

Interesting observations, CB and Jan.

At this point, only the 250mm Tormek models (SuperGrind, T7, and T8) have diamond wheels with side grinding capabilities. As much as I like the T4, I will be pleasantly surprised if Tormek chooses to offer diamond wheels in the 200mm diameter with side grinding.

The T4 has been the basis for many of the recent Tormek advances. The T4 had the precision machined zinc housing top before the T8. In my opinion, this is the most significant advantage of the T8 over the T7.

The T4 is the basis for the specialized T2. In fact, if you switch the zinc tops, the T2 essentially becomes the T4. The T2 has been the proving ground for diamond wheels. I hope Tormek will redesign the 200 mm diamond wheels and make them compatable with wet grinding. I would also like to see a 200mm wheel with 1200 grit. Side grinding would be a nice feature, however, in my opinion, having wet grinding capability and three grits is more important.

A T4 with three diamond wheels would be a formidable portable Tormek!

Keep up the good observations.

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: cbwx34 on August 09, 2018, 02:50:15 pm
Ken, the 18° compensation correspond to the wheel diameter setting 250 mm.

When you set the wheel diameter to 200 mm than the compensation will be 20°. This is much easily memorisable, we use WM-200, set 200 mm diameter and add 20° to our preferred angle.  :)

This approach would be suitable for the updated version of the WM-200 also, because the scale ticks could be completely shared.

Jan

I suspect they will use the  250mm / 18°  setting, to avoid having to remember to adjust the wheel size going back and forth between the two positions.

Can it be much more than what can be done with a Sharpie?  ???

(https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3699.0;attach=2457)

Edit:  Ah... just found the official version...

(https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3699.0;attach=2459)

... does look a bit neater.  ;)
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Jan on August 09, 2018, 03:40:28 pm
Yes CB, sharpie is sufficient. My solution is attached.

Ken, setting the wheel diameter to 200 mm on the WM-200 has in this case no implications towards wheels with 200 mm diameter. The modification will work on all flat surfaces, both vertical and horizontal. WM-200 can be used as a simple angle finder also.
 
Jan
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: marie on August 09, 2018, 04:22:03 pm
Hi, Marie.

I am pleased to see you posting. This must be an exciting time for the Tormek Marketing Department. Even if the new diamond wheels had only the traditional edge cutting capability, they would be a major innovation. The ability of doing controlled flat grinding on the side will open up whole new potential sharpening options for Tormek users. I look forward to studying both much forum conversaton and instructional support from Tormek.

In my opinion, the Anglemaster designation is a very minor issue. What I do find important is that Tormek has provided the users with the modified scale to accurately use the Anglemaster with side grinding. The addition of the modified side grinding scale will do much to aid user proficiency and satisfaction with the Multi Base and diamond wheels.

kind regards,

Ken

It is! Rather busy as well, we have great things ahead of us!  :)
Doing my best to stay updated on the conversations here at the forum, I now realize that I have some reading to do. You guys have been active during my summer holiday, great to see!

Kind regards,
Marie - Marketing Manager
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: cbwx34 on August 09, 2018, 04:53:16 pm
Yes CB, sharpie is sufficient. My solution is attached.

Ken, setting the wheel diameter to 200 mm on the WM-200 has in this case no implications towards wheels with 200 mm diameter. The modification will work on all flat surfaces, both vertical and horizontal. WM-200 can be used as a simple angle finder also.
 
Jan

Yup....it's how I've used it to measure the angle of the taper of a knife grind from spine to the edge... (it's how I knew about the 18° calculation)...to adjust setting the angle on the Anglemaster (https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3573.msg23665#msg23665).
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Jan on August 09, 2018, 06:02:35 pm
Yes CB, the angle measurements with WM-200 can be done with respect to cylindrical surface of the stone or with respect to a flat base.

Jan
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 09, 2018, 07:57:07 pm
Yes CB, sharpie is sufficient. My solution is attached.

Ken, setting the wheel diameter to 200 mm on the WM-200 has in this case no implications towards wheels with 200 mm diameter. The modification will work on all flat surfaces, both vertical and horizontal. WM-200 can be used as a simple angle finder also.
 
Jan

Jan,

Your solution is well conceived and well drawn. I like it. Now.....if Tormek will just add a set of three new 200mm diamond wheels......:)        :)

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 09, 2018, 07:59:44 pm
Yes CB, sharpie is sufficient. My solution is attached.

Ken, setting the wheel diameter to 200 mm on the WM-200 has in this case no implications towards wheels with 200 mm diameter. The modification will work on all flat surfaces, both vertical and horizontal. WM-200 can be used as a simple angle finder also.
 
Jan

CB and Jan,

I should have met you when I was younger and both brain cells were functioning simultaneously. Good thinking!

Ken

Yup....it's how I've used it to measure the angle of the taper of a knife grind from spine to the edge... (it's how I knew about the 18° calculation)...to adjust setting the angle on the Anglemaster (https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3573.msg23665#msg23665).
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 09, 2018, 08:03:56 pm


It is! Rather busy as well, we have great things ahead of us!  :)
Doing my best to stay updated on the conversations here at the forum, I now realize that I have some reading to do. You guys have been active during my summer holiday, great to see!

Kind regards,
Marie - Marketing Manager
[/quote]


Marie,

If the forum members were not on active duty throughout the summer, you fortunate Swedes would not be able to enjoy your long summer holidays.       :)

Ken
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Jan on August 10, 2018, 03:46:00 pm

CB and Jan,

I should have met you when I was younger and both brain cells were functioning simultaneously. Good thinking!

Ken

Ken, reading you abundant posts on two sharpening forums I have no doubts about your "little grey cells".  :)

Jan

P.S.: Your note concerning simultaneous function of brain hemispheres reminded me the déjà vu phenomenon studied by my colleague from local Uni. One theory explains déjà vu by the fact that incoming signals from each hemisphere may not be synchronised properly (some milliseconds delay) and are therefore processed as two separate experiences, with the second seeming to be re-living the first.  ;)
Title: Re: Multi Base-100
Post by: Ken S on August 10, 2018, 04:55:35 pm
Jan,

I am fascinated with how we learn, particularly how a not directly related idea may help develop another.

With my latest Lacer skew project, my original objective was making the skew chisel fit in the Multi Jig's closed seat. I had a lot of difficulty grinding the combined straight and radiused shape with the Multi Jig.

I remembered watching an experienced Tormek demonstrator fumbling with sharpening a very small cut off tool with the Multi Jig. The cut off tool was just too small for the jig. As a first time presenter, I was reluctant to offer suggestions. I would have just set the tool on the support bar and "freehand" sharpened it in just a few seconds. That thought inspired me to try shaping the skew using the support bar at a right angle with the support bar and sharpening it using the platform jig. I am sure the skew experience will someday help other sharpening.

Life would be less interesting if we were not continually learning.

Keep learning.

Ken