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In the Shop => General Tormek Questions => Topic started by: RichColvin on November 13, 2018, 01:56:01 am

Title: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on November 13, 2018, 01:56:01 am
I am so ever grateful to Ken Schroeder for loaning his diamond wheels to me.  I am posting my initial comments below about them.

The summary is this :  I don't see the value to them for me.  What it appears to be is :

Advantages of the diamond wheels
In summary, the diamond wheels seem great for production sharpening shops.


Advantages of the traditional grindstones
In summary, the traditional grindstones seem great for the all-around woodworker.

What I especially like is that Tormek has the right option for what works for many different sharpeners. 

I'm interested in others' thoughts.

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on November 13, 2018, 03:20:10 am
Rich,

After twenty years with your Tormek, you have a very well developed sense of what works well for you. That is not meant to imply that you are set in your ways, only that you have a well tuned point of reference.

You are one of the people who has motivated me not to give up with my SB-250. Frankly, I have never been able to get the blackstone to work for me. It quickly glazes. That inspired me to try (successfully) working with the Norton 3X and CBN wheels. They do not glaze for me. I would write off my blackstone, if I had not seen yours well worn down to eight inches. Seeing your blackstone makes me look inward for the problem.

We all have different expectations with our Tormeks. Some of us do yeoman service with old SuperGrinds and well worn SG-250 grinding wheels. Some of us, especially turners, may prefer the SB-250. Others will gravitate toward the SJ. Some, Tormek junkies like me, want to try everything. (In fairness, this Tormek junkie does have definite preferences.)

There is no one correct way. I am pleased that your preference is based on actual sharpening experience with all of the wheels. That is valuable information for other members.

I hope to see you tomorrow evening st the Central Ohio Woodturners meeting.

Ken
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: GKC on November 14, 2018, 04:13:01 pm
Thanks Rich, that is a very helpful summary for those of us making wheel decisions.

(Ken, I think you meant SB-250 in your post.)

Gord
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on November 14, 2018, 05:17:52 pm
Thanks, Gord. Noted and corrected.

Ken
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RickKrung on November 14, 2018, 06:38:58 pm
Interesting thread.  I also find my reaction/assessment of the diamond wheels interesting. 

Prior to having the diamond wheels, I was frustrated by how slow even the coarsest Tormek stones were.  Ken graciously gave me two used Norton 3X wheels that he was no longer using.  I find them the be a very excellent solution to speedy coarse grinding.  If I had no other options, these plus the Tormek stones would be adequate. 

I was very excited when the diamond stones came out and quickly purchased a set.  I can say that I am very please with them in some regards, but underwhelmed in others.  First, I do not care for the sound or feel of the diamond wheels.  Tinny and hollow sounding (and they are hollow).  I like the much more solid, quiet and smooth feel of the stones. 

Recently, as I was doing farmers market sharpening, I thought I'd be using the diamond stones more consistently.  Instead, I found myself using the Norton 3X, Tormek SB and SG stones most of the time for the "usual" knives.  The 3X wheel is fast and the SB and SG stones plus deburring/stropping on the leather wheel were fast and reliably produced excellently sharpened edges.  I keep the SB stone graded coarse and the SG stone graded fine.  For the SG stone, I use a 1000 grit diamond plate rather than the grading stone.  In truth, an underlying reason I didn't use the diamond wheels more is that I didn't want to up that wear on them for the farmers market work.  I was quite pleased that it was not necessary for the bulk of that work. 

BUT...  When I want to do really precision sharpening for high end knives, I go to the diamond stones and use one of the angle setting applets.  The diamond stones are very reliable with the grind finish and consistent angles produced.  I like knowing the final DE followed by leather wheel deburring and stopping gives a very excellent and satisfyingly sharp finish. 

In short, I would not want to be without the diamond wheels.  But, in reality, I could very do very well without them.  How is that for a conflicted conclusion? 

Rick
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on November 14, 2018, 09:16:20 pm
Rick,

I think we are aligned well.

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: GKC on November 19, 2018, 04:25:00 pm
I have a follow-up question on the experiences with the diamond stones, keying off Rich's list of pros and cons.

For shaping HSS (for me, this means turning tools) is there a notable speed advantage as between the SB-250 graded coarse and the DC-250?  I do shaping now on CBN wheels on a slow speed grinder, which is fast, but I am interesting in knowing how I would configure my T8 to work just on it.

Thanks, Gord
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on November 19, 2018, 05:09:23 pm
Gord,

I don't want to comment on the SB-250. Frankly, I have never been able to use mine well. I think the problem is operator. I like the DC-250. I have reshaped a skew from flat to Lacer grind with it. It is no speedster, but fast enough so that I was not frustrated.

I would suggest trying adapting your CBN wheels to the Tormek 12mm bore. If your wheels are D-Way, Dave sells 12 mm steel bushings for around $15 US that are plug and play with your T8. Assuming your dry grinder is eight inch, your CBN wheels will work on your T8 as well as a Tormek wheel worn to eight inches.

If your CBN wheels have a fixed 5/8” bore, you can use a piece of 5/8” OD plastic pipe. Bore the ID from 7/16” to a generous 31/64”. I use a longer piece hand held in my drill press and then shortened. This is not machinist quality, but adequate for reshaping.

These options may not be your desired long term solutions, however, they will give you an idea of how the Tormek does with coarser wheels at not much cost.

Ken
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on November 19, 2018, 09:15:16 pm
For shaping HSS (for me, this means turning tools) is there a notable speed advantage as between the SB-250 graded coarse and the DC-250?

Gord,

No contest:  The DC-250 is far faster for shaping than the SB-250.  But that is something I rarely do and typically only once for any given tool.  So, I use a traditional grinder and the BGM-100.  No problem for HSS.  Also, that way I can use the same jig for shaping as for sharpening.

A better comparison is sharpening on the SB-250 vs the DF-250 / DE-250.  I found the time difference was in this :

Now, if I could afford multiple T-8s (and had the space for them), I’d put a diamond wheel on each.  As it is, the traditional stones work faster for me.

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: GKC on November 19, 2018, 09:26:31 pm
OK, this is very useful info.  These options make for a lot of pro/con analysis to digest, but it is very helpful to have the input from experienced users. 

And I have read some of Ken's early posts about the old days when your choice was SG-250 or go home.  Tormek has come a long way since then, and with the third party wheels on the Tormek and/or the use of a BGM-100 and just about anything on a dry grinder, the options now available are many.  I prefer having complicated choices to no choices.

Gord
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: georgegolesic on December 03, 2018, 11:09:42 pm
Hello everyone. My first time on the forum. I came across it by accident when I was looking for information on my older Tormek SG 2000. Reading the posts so far has been great for me.  Espeacially with regards to the new Diamond wheels. That is the information I have been searching for.
My question is - Will the new Diamond wheels work on my older model Tormek. I think they will but would like confirmation from people who have had experience with them.  I am a hobby wood turner.  I recently took a woodturning course with Glen Lucas and had first hand experience with a diamond wheel and absolutely loved it.  Would like to retrofit my Tormek with one.

Thanks
George Golesic
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: cbwx34 on December 03, 2018, 11:35:46 pm
Hello everyone. My first time on the forum. I came across it by accident when I was looking for information on my older Tormek SG 2000. Reading the posts so far has been great for me.  Espeacially with regards to the new Diamond wheels. That is the information I have been searching for.
My question is - Will the new Diamond wheels work on my older model Tormek. I think they will but would like confirmation from people who have had experience with them.  I am a hobby wood turner.  I recently took a woodturning course with Glen Lucas and had first hand experience with a diamond wheel and absolutely loved it.  Would like to retrofit my Tormek with one.

Thanks
George Golesic

The diamond wheels will work on any Tormek that a 250mm wheel will fit on... T-8, T-7, Supergrind, etc.  Won't fit on the ones with the smaller wheel... T-4, T-3, etc.

So, if your older model will take a 250mm stone... the diamond wheel will fit with no modifications needed.  (But if you're going to be swapping stones, the EzyLock setup (https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/spare-parts/shafts/msk-250-stainless-steel-shaft/) is worth considering, if you don't already have it). :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on December 04, 2018, 03:40:22 am
George,

I tested them on my T2000.

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: georgegolesic on December 04, 2018, 04:21:19 pm
Hello Rich
Thanks for posting the pic - worth a thousand words!!   I am trying to find a 1200  Grit diamond wheel  (DE-250).  Apparently a production problem. Anyone heard of any suppliers who are stocking them at this point??

Thanks
George
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RickKrung on December 04, 2018, 05:46:28 pm
Sure don't know whether they are in stock, but these are the suppliers I've used:

Advanced Machinery
https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/pages/tormek-home (https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/pages/tormek-home)

Affinity Tools
https://affinitytool.com/brands/tormek-catalog (https://affinitytool.com/brands/tormek-catalog)

Sharpening Supplies
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Tormek-C101.aspx (https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Tormek-C101.aspx)

Sharpening Made Easy (Steve Bottorff)
https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/tormek.htm (https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/tormek.htm)

Rick
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on December 04, 2018, 10:58:49 pm
Hello Rich
Thanks for posting the pic - worth a thousand words!!   I am trying to find a 1200  Grit diamond wheel  (DE-250).  Apparently a production problem. Anyone heard of any suppliers who are stocking them at this point??

Thanks
George

George,

Sure, no problem.  I took the pic as it made me think of the cars with serious upgrades ... you know, like the Yugo with a V8, 5.7 L Hemi engine it !!

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: cbwx34 on December 05, 2018, 04:04:52 pm
Hello Rich
Thanks for posting the pic - worth a thousand words!!   
...

And notice that EzyLock setup. :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Jeff Thurwatcher on December 07, 2018, 03:42:52 am
My wheels arrived today, haven't used any of them yet. They are heavy.

BTW a bottle of anti-corrosion concentrate comes with each wheel so now I have 5 bottles of it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on December 07, 2018, 11:50:23 am
Welcome to posting, Jeff.

Remember to use very light grinding pressure with the diamond wheels. I think you will enjoy using them. I like the continuous cutting sound and feel that does not decline or need to be frequently refreshed. Keep in mind that, like CBN wheels, there is an initial break in period when the wheels cut more aggressively. This is short.

Enjoy.

Ken

An inexpensive children's plastic medicine graduate/spoon from the pharmacy department, graduated in milliliters, simplifies using the ACC.
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Pastor_Zatx on December 20, 2018, 12:37:33 am
Quote
4. Unlike CBN wheels, these can be used for sharpening high carbon steels.


Why do you say that CBN cannot be used with high carbon steels?
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: GKC on December 20, 2018, 05:15:09 am
This is a common caveat with CBN and diamond wheels, the concern being that some (merely) high carbon steels are not inherently hard enough or haven't been hardened enough, with the result that they could clog ("gum up") the abrasive array on the surface of the wheels. 

However, I don't find the term "high carbon steel" very useful in this context.  It is true that CBN and diamond wheels excel on high speed steels and the newer super hard steel alloys, which pose no risk of clogging the wheels. But some high carbon tool steels can be quite hard and users report that they do not harm their CBN wheels.  Also, some who have experienced clogging have found that the wheels can be cleaned up by grinding some high speed steel on them.

But as Ken is wont to remind us, the standard Tormek grindstone is excellent at high carbon steel, so you don't need to put your exotic wheels at risk.

Gord 
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Pastor_Zatx on December 20, 2018, 03:03:26 pm
This is a common caveat with CBN and diamond wheels, the concern being that some (merely) high carbon steels are not inherently hard enough or haven't been hardened enough, with the result that they could clog ("gum up") the abrasive array on the surface of the wheels. 

However, I don't find the term "high carbon steel" very useful in this context.  It is true that CBN and diamond wheels excel on high speed steels and the newer super hard steel alloys, which pose no risk of clogging the wheels. But some high carbon tool steels can be quite hard and users report that they do not harm their CBN wheels.

Also, some who have experienced clogging have found that the wheels can be cleaned up by grinding some high speed steel on them.

But as Ken is wont to remind us, the standard Tormek grindstone is excellent at high carbon steel, so you don't need to put your exotic wheels at risk.

Gord


Thank you for this response. I have an ever-increasing collection of knives that include high-carbon and stainless steels that include 52100, HAP 40, REX 45, D2, M390, S30V, S90V, S110V, CTS-204P, CV20, and others I don't remember at the moment. I've sharpened these with CBN rods and stones without any damage to the sharpening medium so thought it might be something unique to the Tormek CBN wheels. I know that CBN and diamond are sensitive to pressure and heat (though heat is less of a factor with CBN) so I'm careful to avoid both when sharpening these steels.

I'm in the "research" phase of my Tormek purchase and wanted to make sure I didn't buy something in error.

Thank you again.
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on December 20, 2018, 03:24:25 pm
Jason,

Gord is exactly correct.

By the way, I believe this is why Tormek was "late" to the game of replacing their traditional grindstones.  They pursued a diamond wheel approach which works extremely well when kept cool.  CBN is a better alternative if grinding at high speeds or pressures.  Since neither of those apply on the Tormek diamond wheels, it was a smart choice by Tormek.

The notes I have about CBN and diamond wheels on my SharpeningHandbook.info site are :

CBN stone notes
Diamond stone notes

Kind regards,
Rich 
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on December 24, 2018, 08:54:00 pm
The difference between Tormek and third party grinding wheels is that the Tormek products are specifically designed to work on the Tormek. That is not to say that other products, such as CBN wheels, will not work or work very well with the Tormek. They are just primarily designed for other purposes, generally high speed dry grinding. Look at the vendor's websites. You will often find well done videos showing turning tools being sharpened with high speed dry grinders. These wheels function very well for this intended purpose. I have three CBN wheels and really have no complaints with them. (Mine, unlike some, can be used wet.) I just prefer the Tormek diamond wheels. They are designed to be used wet, and the 12mm bore is by design, not an after thought.

Ken
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: GKC on December 25, 2018, 06:05:03 am
Ken, I am wondering if you experience different results with your diamond wheels compared to your CBN wheels.

About "designed in" wet use and 12mm bores, I got my 250mm CBNs to use dry, but I now also use them wet with good results.  I don't think of the 12mm bore in the middle of my wheels as any less designed into the wheels than those in a Tormek wheel.  So I don't see the significance of those points.  And as with you (or at least as I take it from your comment in the thread started by Pastor Zatx) I don't mind (and sometimes want) the hollow grind, so I am happy to work on the circumference of the wheel.  And the flat grinding option on the side of the diamond wheels would not be my first choice for flat sharpening tasks when I have them.

So, I keep wondering about results: is there a difference between CBN and diamond in the Tormek application? Maybe no one has done a comparison and the data aren't there.  But it could matter to some, because the 250mm CBNs are about $180 and the diamonds are about $330.

Gord
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on December 25, 2018, 08:28:16 pm
Wootz is probably the best to answer this. 

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: madeiranlotuseater on January 08, 2019, 02:24:13 pm
Hi there,

I'm new to this community.

My plane irons and chisels are all A2 steel.  The plane irons some 4.5mm thick.  Obviously repairing nicks in these blades means that a lot of metal needs to be removed.  I've tried the Blackstone but, whilst a fine stone, takes forever to grind away A2.

My question is, will the new Diamond Stones from tormec be up to the job? Never cheap in the first place.  More expensive still when I bought a Blackstone wheel. These diamond ones?????? 
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RickKrung on January 08, 2019, 04:49:24 pm
Hi there,

I'm new to this community.

My plane irons and chisels are all A2 steel.  The plane irons some 4.5mm thick.  Obviously repairing nicks in these blades means that a lot of metal needs to be removed.  I've tried the Blackstone but, whilst a fine stone, takes forever to grind away A2.

My question is, will the new Diamond Stones from tormec be up to the job? Never cheap in the first place.  More expensive still when I bought a Blackstone wheel. These diamond ones??????

Welcome to the forum, Charles. 

I have found the Tormek coarse diamond wheel (DC250) wanting when a lot of steel needs to be removed.  When I am faced with needing to remove a lot of metal, I go to a more traditional grindstone, the Norton 3X, which is ceramic alumina designed for heavy metal removal.  While they are designed to be used at high speed on a traditional grinder, but by adapting mounting bushings to 12mm, they can be used on the Tormek at low speed with water cooling.  They function the same as wheel worn down to about 200mm. 

The Norton 3X wheels are available from a number of suppliers.
Lee Valley
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43080&p=62012
 (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43080&p=62012)

Sharpening Supplies
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-3X-Blue-Grinding-Wheel-I-Grade-P37.aspx

At around $60 US, they are a very economical alternative.  I received mine used from Ken S.  Ken drilled out a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe, as I recall, to make a bushing that fit the 12mm Tormek shaft, along with the bushings provided with the wheels to fit a 5/8" shaft.  I machined stainless steel bushings that mated the 1" arbor hole with the 12mm Tormek shaft.  The wheels are 1" wide, so need spacers between the inner Tormek spacer on the inside and/or the locking nut on the outside.  Ken used 12mm fender washers.  I machined flanges out of aluminum. 

D-Way Tools sells a bushing kit to adapt 1" arbor hole CBN wheels to 12mm shafts.
http://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels/bushing-kits-for-cbn-grinding-wheels/ (http://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels/bushing-kits-for-cbn-grinding-wheels/).  These are designed for wheels 1-1/2" wide so you would need to cut then down for the 1" wide Norton wheel. 

Rick
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: madeiranlotuseater on January 08, 2019, 10:46:45 pm
Rick,

Many thanks for your information.  I left my Karl Holtey plane irons in store for two years and the A2 suffered very badly.  So much so that I decided to order two new blades for my 98s. What an expensive mistake.  Fortunately the planes are made in stainless steel.
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on January 09, 2019, 03:21:02 am
Charles,

Are you familiar with these rust erasers? I have a set that I use quite frequently, and thought it might revitalize your Holtey blades.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/garden/page.aspx?p=10509&cat=2,42194,40727

Ken
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RichColvin on January 09, 2019, 10:33:24 am
Hi there,

I'm new to this community.

My plane irons and chisels are all A2 steel.  The plane irons some 4.5mm thick.  Obviously repairing nicks in these blades means that a lot of metal needs to be removed.  I've tried the Blackstone but, whilst a fine stone, takes forever to grind away A2.

My question is, will the new Diamond Stones from tormec be up to the job? Never cheap in the first place.  More expensive still when I bought a Blackstone wheel. These diamond ones??????

Charles,-

I agree with Rick.  The DC250 is much faster for reshaping than the SB-250. 

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on January 09, 2019, 04:06:13 pm
Just a quick trip back to wheel dimensions: I have one of the non Tormek wheels with a 254mm width and slightly more than 50mm thickness. (It crowded my original T7 water trough.) I do not think it was manufactured to metric dimensions. My guess is that someone unfamiliar with the Tormek living in a country using Imperial dimensions ordered 10” x 2” wheels.

Back on topic: I agree with Rick and Rich that the DC-250 is faster for reshaping than the SB-250. The DC cuts continuously with a satisfying grinding sound and feel. I find it cuts faster in the vertical position. Be sure to use light grinding pressure to protect the wheel.

I am not the person to ask about the SB. People I respect have gotten good results using it. I have never gotten it to well, something I attribute to operator error and lack of good instruction from Tormek.

The DC does not cut as fast as a high speed grinder. It is up to the job if one has a bit of patience. I like the DC.

Ken
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RickKrung on January 09, 2019, 04:06:40 pm
...snip...
I agree with Rick.  The DC250 is much faster for reshaping than the SB-250. 
...snip...

I do agree with Rich, the Tormek coarse diamond wheel (DC-250) is faster than the Tormek Blackstone (SB-250). 

However, I did not say this and the point of my post was that a much cheaper and faster yet alternative to the DC-250 is a Norton 3X grind stone.  My statement was (emphasis added) :

...snip...
I have found the Tormek coarse diamond wheel (DC250) wanting when a lot of steel needs to be removed.  When I am faced with needing to remove a lot of metal, I go to a more traditional grindstone, the Norton 3X, which is ceramic alumina designed for heavy metal removal. ...snip...

For $60 plus shipping and some work to adapt it (drill out some PVC pipe), you can have a wheel that removes metal faster than the DC-250. 

I received both the 64 and 80 grit Norton 3x wheels from Ken S., but I screwed up when I made the bushings.  Somehow, the steel I made the bushing from for the 64 grit wheel was NOT stainless, so it rusts, so I don't use it.  The bushing for the 80 grit wheel IS stainless, so that is the one I use and even it is faster than the DC-250.

Rick

Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: RickKrung on January 09, 2019, 04:12:56 pm
...snip...
The DC does not cut as fast as a high speed grinder. It is up to the job if one has a bit of patience. I like the DC.

Ken

Ken's and my posts crossed in the wires.  Again, I do agree the DC cuts faster than the SB.  But... again...  The Norton 3X wheels cut faster yet. 

And to clarify something that may not need it :), my use of the Norton wheels is not on a high speed grinder.  Rather, they have been adapted for use on the Tormek, extremely slow speed (by comparison) and wet. 

Rick
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on January 09, 2019, 08:29:07 pm
...snip...
The DC does not cut as fast as a high speed grinder. It is up to the job if one has a bit of patience. I like the DC.

Ken

Ken's and my posts crossed in the wires.  Again, I do agree the DC cuts faster than the SB.  But... again...  The Norton 3X wheels cut faster yet. 

I agree totally with Rick. The Norton 3X wheels are the fastest cutting wheels I have ever used on my Tormek.

I started working with the 3X wheels because I was looking for a true coarse grinding wheel for the Tormek. I like the concept of the SG wheel, which can be varied from coarser to finer with the stone grader. It makes a very practical one wheel machine and has been my go to wheel for sharpening. 220 grit is not coarse. 46 grit, as in the 3X, is coarse. It allows fast cutting while preserving the water cooled, dust and spark free Tormek environment.Tormek has never made a coarse wheel. The DWC-200 and DC-200 are Tormek's wheels which come closest to being coarse wheels. They are designed for the Tormek, and work well with the Tormek. I should note that Tormek only recommends the DC-200 for dry use, and only with the T2. (I have used it dry with the T4 very successfully.)

I have a standard test for grinding wheels. I place a metal lathe cutting bit in my square edge jig set for thirty degrees and grind for a timed five minutes. The amount of metal removed tells the story. I ground through the entire edge of the metal lathe bit in five minutes with the 3X 80 grit. I ground the same amount with the 46 grit in four minutes. Regretfully, I did not keep good records. Both the diamond and CBN wheels performed respectably, but not as well as the 3X. The SG performance was not too bad. It outperformed the SB.

My conclusion: My first choice for a totally compatable coarse wheel is the DC-250. It does not cut as fast as the 3X. It is 250mm, an exact, direct for for the Tormek, and designed to work wet.

Based solely on quick cutting, my first choice is the 46 grit Norton 3X. It has some drawbacks. It is only available in 8” (200mm) diameter. The wheel will eventually wear with use and need occasional truing/dressing. Rick, with his machinist background, made a proper bushing to mount the wheel. For me, since it is a coarse wheel, I was content to roughly ream out a piece of plastic pipe. Not perfect, but adequate. The 46 grit 3X wheel gives a lot of fire power for fifty dollars. It will work on either size Tormek.

Ken

And to clarify something that may not need it :), my use of the Norton wheels is not on a high speed grinder.  Rather, they have been adapted for use on the Tormek, extremely slow speed (by comparison) and wet. 

Rick
Title: Re: Thoughts on the Diamond Wheels vs. Traditional Grindstones
Post by: Ken S on January 09, 2019, 10:48:48 pm
Rick,

Many thanks for your information.  I left my Karl Holtey plane irons in store for two years and the A2 suffered very badly.  So much so that I decided to order two new blades for my 98s. What an expensive mistake.  Fortunately the planes are made in stainless steel.

I have been wondering why your A2 Holtey blades chipped. Have you been sharpening them at the recommended 30° bevel angle for A2?

The 98 is a smoothing plane. As such, your shavings should be very fine, around .001” thick. The smoothing plane is only used anter the jack plane does the heavy lifting and the jointer makes the board level. The role of the smoother is like the role of the 8000 grit polishing stone in sharpening. If used correctly, I don't understand the blade chipping.

Please do not midinterpret this post as criticizing you. My only desire is to help solve your problem.

Ken

ps here is a link to the Holtey 98 smooth plane.

http://www.holteyplanes.com/planes_No98.html