Tormek Community

In the Shop => Knife Sharpening => Topic started by: SHARPCO on March 08, 2019, 10:43:39 pm

Title: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: SHARPCO on March 08, 2019, 10:43:39 pm
https://youtu.be/kO1dyGxa3Rg

Yesterday, I applied Diamond paste to Tormek leather wheels and tested it for sharpening the high-vanadium steel knives.

CBN 400 grit >>> CBN 1000 grit >>> Diamond honing wheel 5 micron >>> Diamond honing wheel 0.5 micron

But the Diamond honing wheel didn't remove burr completely. So I had to use the honing wheel(PA-70) after using the Diamond honing wheel(0.5 micron).

PA-70 is real burr killer.

I think it's better to remove the burr first using the honing wheel(PA-70) before using the Diamond honing wheel.
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: Ken S on March 08, 2019, 10:56:41 pm
Sharpco,

You conclusion seems to mirror the tradition of working through increasingly fine grit stones to make the scratch pattern increasingly smaller. It makes sense to me.

Ken
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: SHARPCO on March 08, 2019, 11:08:14 pm
Sharpco,

You conclusion seems to mirror the tradition of working through increasingly fine grit stones to make the scratch pattern increasingly smaller. It makes sense to me.

Ken

Because My customers love the polished edge. It's not only sharp and beautiful but also resistant to rust.
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: Ken S on March 09, 2019, 02:19:32 am
Sharpco,

If you happen to have two Tormeks (and the space to set up both), you could set up a very efficient assembly line with two leather honing wheels. You could even preset support support bars for both. By using two honing wheels this efficiently, you could include this service with your standard sharpening rate, which would really make your work stand out.

Ken
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: SHARPCO on March 09, 2019, 07:54:41 am
Sharpco,

If you happen to have two Tormeks (and the space to set up both), you could set up a very efficient assembly line with two leather honing wheels. You could even preset support support bars for both. By using two honing wheels this efficiently, you could include this service with your standard sharpening rate, which would really make your work stand out.

Ken

You're right. But I sold my second Tormek T-8 a few month ago. I'm satisfying with using only one Tormek.
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: wootz on March 13, 2019, 11:43:22 pm
Hi SHARPCO

Deburring high-vanadium knives, and hard alloy knives in general is different to high-carbon and mainstream stainless steel knives.
While carbon and mainstream s/s knives, with their edge set on #1000 are deburred with a 5-6 micron honing compound, high-vanadium knives typically require 10-micron diamonds honing before you can continue on 5-micron. Still doable with 5-mircon diamonds or CBN but by longer honing at high RPM, e.g. on paper wheels.
Honing them with aluminium oxide based compounds compromises the edge retention.

You also asked elsewhere if the hard alloy knives can be bevelled on the SG or SB wheel - sure they can, but further honing must be done with CBN or diamonds only.

The question I am often asked if the hard alloy edge can be set on the SG/SB wheel graded to #1000 rather than CBN/diamond wheel #1000 or #1200 - one can never get the same sharpness as off the CBN/diamond wheel. CBN/diamond superabrasives remove material in a unique way; due to their super hardness the whole process is quite similar to the milling operation, while conventional abrasives are more akin to sanding - as a result the apex of the edge set on #1000/1200 CBN/diamonds is in the vicinity of the Gillette razor apex 0.1 micron, while that set on SG/SB wheel is near 0.5 micron.

All these particulars are covered in our Knife Deburring book, the chapter High-end versus mainstream knives - a free evaluation version in PDF is available on our website, and in the article Scanning Electron Microscope images for our sharpening protocols on our website Sharpening Resources section.

Now that you have the Knife Deburring book, just re-read the chapter High-end versus mainstream knives :)
You can also compare our sharpening procedure for mainstream s/s knives to the procedure for high-end knives on our website - these are actual sharpening procedures we follow in our workshop:
http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_SS.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_SS.htm)
vs
http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_HE.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_HE.htm)

Cheers,
Vadim
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: SHARPCO on March 14, 2019, 03:53:19 am
Hi SHARPCO

Deburring high-vanadium knives, and hard alloy knives in general is different to high-carbon and mainstream stainless steel knives.
While carbon and mainstream s/s knives, with their edge set on #1000 are deburred with a 5-6 micron honing compound, high-vanadium knives typically require 10-micron diamonds honing before you can continue on 5-micron. Still doable with 5-mircon diamonds or CBN but by longer honing at high RPM, e.g. on paper wheels.
Honing them with aluminium oxide based compounds compromises the edge retention.

You also asked elsewhere if the hard alloy knives can be bevelled on the SG or SB wheel - sure they can, but further honing must be done with CBN or diamonds only.

The question I am often asked if the hard alloy edge can be set on the SG/SB wheel graded to #1000 rather than CBN/diamond wheel #1000 or #1200 - one can never get the same sharpness as off the CBN/diamond wheel. CBN/diamond superabrasives remove material in a unique way; due to their super hardness the whole process is quite similar to the milling operation, while conventional abrasives are more akin to sanding - as a result the apex of the edge set on #1000/1200 CBN/diamonds is in the vicinity of the Gillette razor apex 0.1 micron, while that set on SG/SB wheel is near 0.5 micron.

All these particulars are covered in our Knife Deburring book, the chapter High-end versus mainstream knives - a free evaluation version in PDF is available on our website, and in the article Scanning Electron Microscope images for our sharpening protocols on our website Sharpening Resources section.

Now that you have the Knife Deburring book, just re-read the chapter High-end versus mainstream knives :)
You can also compare our sharpening procedure for mainstream s/s knives to the procedure for high-end knives on our website - these are actual sharpening procedures we follow in our workshop:
http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_SS.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_SS.htm)
vs
http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_HE.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_HE.htm)

Cheers,
Vadim

I'm very appreciated that.  :)

https://youtu.be/kO1dyGxa3Rg

You would have seen this video. I found that 5 micron & 0.5 micron diamond honing wheel can't remove the burr. So I had to use PA-70 honing wheel last.
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: cbwx34 on March 14, 2019, 05:04:21 pm
...
I found that 5 micron & 0.5 micron diamond honing wheel can't remove the burr. So I had to use PA-70 honing wheel last.

My .02... experiment with the honing angle.  (Isn't 5 micron similar to the Tormek compound, with the advantage that it doesn't break down?)  5m is roughly 1200g... and while finer applied to leather, should adequately debur.

From your other videos, you use the USB guide to debur... so you might try some controlled experiments at different angles and see what happens.
Title: Re: Diamond honing wheel
Post by: SHARPCO on March 14, 2019, 10:24:05 pm
...
I found that 5 micron & 0.5 micron diamond honing wheel can't remove the burr. So I had to use PA-70 honing wheel last.

My .02... experiment with the honing angle.  (Isn't 5 micron similar to the Tormek compound, with the advantage that it doesn't break down?)  5m is roughly 1200g... and while finer applied to leather, should adequately debur.

From your other videos, you use the USB guide to debur... so you might try some controlled experiments at different angles and see what happens.

Thank you for advice. I'll try.