Tormek Community

In the Shop => Knife Sharpening => Topic started by: bobl on October 02, 2019, 10:11:15 pm

Title: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on October 02, 2019, 10:11:15 pm
Hi again. its been a while.
Can you please advise me on the best abrasive on the DC-250 wheel or finer for chefs knives.?
This is also to include some very old knives that will need re-edged????
Bob.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on October 03, 2019, 04:20:06 am
Welcome back, Bob. I trust your sharpening business has been going well.

Deciding which diamond wheel to start with can be tricky. Tormek equips the T2 specialized for restaurant staff model with the DWF-200, the 200mm equivalent of the DF-250 600 grit wheel. I believe that the DWC-200 (360 grit wheel) was added at the request of a major customer. I don't know if Tormek originally planned to offer two grits or if the original plan was for a simplified, single wheel.

I like all of the diamond wheels. I like the way they all cut. The grit numbers cannot be directly compared with the SG grit. I have found that the DC 360 grit cuts substantially more than the SG 220 grit, even when used properly with light grinding pressure.

If the majority of your kitchen knives just need to be sharpened, I would start with the DF 600 grit. Your knives which require extra work will require extra time. You can either live with the extra time or invest in a DC wheel. The alternative would be to start with the DC 360 grit wheel for the heavier work and probably use your SG for the lighter sharpening.

Your call.

Glad you are back.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: john.jcb on October 03, 2019, 03:20:09 pm
Ken, have you tried the DE-250 as a final step after the SG-250 and prior to honing?
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on October 03, 2019, 07:33:39 pm
Hi Ken. Nice to touch base again with you and the forum.
I already have the T2 with the DWF- 200 wheel. I find that too fine for most knives. What would you recommend for the T7 on a slightly courser grade on the diamond wheel.?
For knife sharpening.
Bob.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on October 03, 2019, 08:21:54 pm
Good question, John. I have spent most of my limited shop time using the DC-250. I delayed replying hoping other members might chime in.

The DC-250 is decidedly more efficient with removing M2 High Speed Steel than the SG. I am just starting to have more success with the SB, so I will defer to others on that.

I noticed smaller scratches with the DF and especially the DE.

Most of my effort has been looking for a more efficient coarse wheel for the Tormek. The two Tormek diamond coarse wheels, the DC-250 and DWC-200 are the first efficient Tormek coarse wheels that I have found.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Even on October 04, 2019, 11:21:41 am
Hello.
I have all the diamond wheels for Tormek.
I use the DC-250 mostly for sharpening of knife, but have to finish with the DE-250.
This is because the DC-250 leaves a strong burr.

I don't think the DC-250 removes metal fast, The SB-250 removes metal faster I think.

I recently bought the CBN-80 from Knife Grinders, to use when I need and remove a lot of metal. Example re profiling. I haven't used this wheel much, but I've impressed so far.

Even
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on October 04, 2019, 08:09:29 pm
Even,

I am glad you posted.

My first SB quickly glazed. I kept it because I know several sharpeners I respect who like it. I recently acquired a second, new SB. This wheel cuts better. I like the initial results, but have not used it enough to comment. My DWC-200 and DC-250 definitely cut faster than the SG. Neither is a speed demon, however, they have given me Tormek control at a speed which, while not fast, is not frustrating.

I would expect your KG 80 grit CBN wheel to cut even faster. Even after the initial breaking in period, my 80 grit D-Way CBN wheel performs very well.

I think, in general, we are expecting a lot of versatility from a single wheel. While the SG may not perform as well as more specialized wheels, it was the all purpose wheel for many years.

You do not mention the DF (600 grit) wheel. What are your experiences with it?

We have a lot to learn about grinding wheels.

Keep posting.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on October 05, 2019, 06:12:15 pm
still confused as to which diamond wheel to use for knife sharpening on the T7 Ken.
Help.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on October 05, 2019, 07:32:49 pm
I think I am going to try the DC 250, as the T2 carries the same grit as the DF 250 - is that right Ken??
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on October 05, 2019, 09:58:19 pm
I think I am going to try the DC 250, as the T2 carries the same grit as the DF 250 - is that right Ken??

Bob,
Yes, the DWC-200 and DC-250 both are 360 grit. I have found that either of them cut faster than the SG-250. Some say the SB cuts faster than the SG. I don't have enough experience with the SB to say one way or the other. The DC and DWC are the only Tormek diamond wheels coarser than the DF (or DWF).
Since you live in the UK, I suggest you contact the Tormek agent, Axminster, and see if there is a way you could try a DC wheel. I assume there are Tormek demonstrations in the UK. If not, see if you could purchase a DC with a return plivelage.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on October 06, 2019, 06:51:56 pm
cheers ken, will do.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Even on October 07, 2019, 09:42:47 am
Hi Ken.
Yes you are right in that the SB-250 can glaze up fast at times. This was annoying until I found a solution to it.

As you say, SG and SB are the most universal grinding wheels for normal use.

If you grind professionally and in large volume, the diamond wheels come into the picture in my opinion.
Then you dont need spending time truing the wheels and they stay at the same diameter all the time.

I use DF at least of all the tormek wheels.
This is because most customer knives require a bit of grinding and are then much more effective to start with DC and end with DE then honing..
I could have done the whole process with just DF and finished with honing, but this takes longer to change wheels.

Should I have chosen just one diamond wheel then it has become DC.
I used this for a long time with SG who was graded to fine.
Then use a program like that from KnifeGrinders to get the correct angle with different wheel diameters.

Even
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on October 07, 2019, 12:28:27 pm
Good thoughts, Even.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on October 14, 2019, 06:24:43 pm
so, for chefs knives, should I get the DC 250   ----   OR    ----  DF250 ???
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Even on October 14, 2019, 09:18:37 pm
If you only gonna have one, it depend on the use.
You say kitchen knives, are they your own or are they customer knives?

If it is for personal use only then I recommend the DF-250 or just stick to the SG.

But if you sharpen customer knives then I would rather have chosen the DC-250, these customer knives usually need more metal removal, as they are often very dull and have damage to the edge.

Even
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on October 15, 2019, 01:14:42 pm
Good thoughts, Even.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: john.jcb on October 15, 2019, 05:55:38 pm
For my customers I do 2 things that have resulted in knives that eventually come back in better shape. First I give them a short lesson on knife use, care and when to bring them back along with a printed reminder. Secondly I show them how to use the steel that they all seem to have but have never used. Since I am a relatively low volume sharpener I can take more time with my customer base.

I am seeing far less nicks and really dull knives on my longer term customers. Most admit they tried the steel but quickly forgot to do it.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on November 01, 2019, 10:48:37 pm
Even, I hope you are right sir. I have just ordered the DC250  - 360 grit. I will keep you and my mate Ken in the loop and let you know how it goes.
As a historic thing, I have always preferred the SB25 to the SG250..
I reckon this DC250 will be an upgrade.
Laters.
Bob the knife grinder.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on November 01, 2019, 11:17:08 pm
that should have read
SB250
not
SB25.
Time to change my keyboard, or maybe my fingers.:]
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on November 02, 2019, 12:34:08 am
Bob,
No big deal about the "SB-25”. I just thought it was part of a British numbering system.   ;)

Please post your thoughts on using your new DC-350.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on November 07, 2019, 05:52:15 pm
Haha. nice one sir.
Well. I just received and used my DC250. Not bad at all. But, I should have listened to you sir. There is a bit too much of a burr for my liking. However, it will be a good wheel for knives with problems.
I have today ordered the DF250. This, I am now sure, will put an amazing edge on the knives, with it being 1000 grit.
I will update soon.
Cheers.
Bob
The Knife Grinder
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on November 07, 2019, 07:31:09 pm
Bob,

I suspect you(and most of us) will eventually have all three diamond wheels. The DC will always be too coarse for some knives; the DC will always be too fine for others. Have you tried lightening your already light pressure?

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: john.jcb on November 07, 2019, 08:35:00 pm
Bob,

I suspect you(and most of us) will eventually have all three diamond wheels. The DC will always be too coarse for some knives; the DC will always be too fine for others. Have you tried lightening your already light pressure?

Ken

You may be prophetic Ken. I got a batch of knives from a new customer and they were in the poorest condition one could imagine. They were butter knife dull and looked as though each had been further abused as they all had nicks in the blade. I finally got them sharpened but I wish I had either the coarse diamond wheel or a belt sander. I would also like the finest diamond wheel for finishing knives prior to final honing of the burr.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Ken S on November 07, 2019, 09:35:21 pm
Good point, John. Sadly, I think you are right. We should all insist that our customers all bring their knives in for sharpening at a predetermined level of unsharpness. Until then, different grits will be useful.

Ken
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on November 09, 2019, 08:55:49 pm
you know me Ken, cant get enough wheels, Haha. Just received my fine diamond wheel and look forward to my sharpening next week. I will update you when I have had a day on it sir.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on November 20, 2019, 07:17:45 pm
I have been using my new DF wheel for a week now.
Perfect result.
Super fine and sharp edge.
those are the positives.
It takes me twice the time to sharpen than on the SB250 ( best all rounder so far. )
I find there is a lot of water on the bench when using the DF wheel, Can you give me help on this??

Love the DF wheel results but dislike that it takes twice a long, money and time is important to me as a business.
appreciate any comments and help/advice.
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: Even on November 20, 2019, 10:06:37 pm
Hello.

There are several positive things that you did not mention ;-)
You dont have to true the stone, and you dont get the sludge that occurs from ordinary stones.

That it takes twice as long with DF relative to SB is normal, due to DF is 600 grit and SB is 220 grit.
As I mentioned earlier, SB is the Tormek stone that is the fastest for grinding.

What I've found is the fastest way to grind for me with tormek is:
Starts with CBN 80 grit, then goes to DC-250, then to DE-250, then honing (this gives me razor sharp edges in the 50-60 Bess range. (you could possibly go from CBN80 to DF-250 and honing, but I prefer the added fineness of DE-250).

This is a bit faster than just using the SB-250. Although I have to change wheels several times, I prefer it instead of grading the SB-250 to fine and rough.

Regarding the water spill you are experiencing, this is normal, especially when using ACC.
I've dropped the ACC and only run clean water, this spills less.
So after I finish the grinding for the day I run all the wheels with ACC while using a toothbrush to clean the stones. (tormek does not recommend this, but I have done it for 8 months without seeing any hint of rust).

Even
Title: Re: Tormek Diamond wheel DC 250 or finer?
Post by: bobl on December 04, 2019, 04:08:50 pm
thanks Even, I definitely prefer the DF wheel, even though it takes longer. I so much prefer the edge it gives along with my customers.
Ref my own knives I experimented with, they are still amazingly sharp and holding the edge really well.
Cheers.
Bob The Knife Grinder
bobl