Tormek Community

In the Shop => Scissors Sharpening => Topic started by: Ukfraser on July 12, 2020, 05:26:02 pm

Title: Garden tools
Post by: Ukfraser on July 12, 2020, 05:26:02 pm
Hi, Im trying to decide which model and jigs to get. Principally a woodworker with planes and chisels but have some carving implements and gouges and also make musical instruments. But im also doing a lot of gardening. Purely for family use. About the only area i dont currently work is wood turning.

having watched the garden tools sharpening video, i wondered if an T4 users have had success in sharpening an axe and a pair Grass edging shears?

My axe wasnt very sharp when i bought it and keeps getting abused but i am using it more now so really want something i can get a good edge on.

Im virtually decided on a t4 with the Hand  tools collection, my logic is that i can see myself using Virtually all the tools at some time plus have somewhere to store them.

 but still thinking whether to just go for the bushcraft t4 and a couple of other jigs and not bother with scissors.


Ps the t8 is still a possibility but its really above my budget unless anyone knows how often we get and when is the best time for sales in the uk.
Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ken S on July 12, 2020, 06:40:00 pm
Welcome to the forum,Ukfraser.

Normally I am the forum advocate for the T4. However, in your case, I think the T8 would be easier to use with your axe and grass trimmers. Since the T8 includes the essential TT-50 truing tool and the also essential SE-77 for square edge chisels and plane blades, the difference in total cost is much reduced.

I would only purchase the jigs you actually need instead of a kit. (I suspect Tormek Marketing and some forum members will think differently.)

Keep us posted.

Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ukfraser on July 12, 2020, 07:22:14 pm
Thanks ken for the response and welcome.

yes, im very drawn to the t 8 for exactly the reasons you mention. The comment on shears is particularly helpful.

As to jigs, i think i need the
SVM-45 Short knife jig and SVM-00 Small Knife Holder for my morkaniv 106 and 120 and folding knives as well as normal kitchen knives.
SVX-150 Scissor jig for scissors and shears
SVS-38 Short tool jig For gouges
SVA-170 Axe grinding kit for the axe

And by the time ive bought them i will have nearly spent the same as getting the kit. The only one i cant see a need for is SVM-140 Long thin knife jig But getting the kit, i get something to organise them. So from a cost perspective i think the kit makes sense.

For me the decider is the scissor jig which i can live without if the shears cant be sharpened on a t4 and it sort of points me to t4 bushcraft with slightly fewer jigs.

But will i regret it long term??? Decisions, decisions.
Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ken S on July 13, 2020, 10:22:34 pm
For the knives I sharpen, I rarely need the longer jig. I have a fillet knife, but hardly ever use it.

There is nothing wrong with the kits. The new ones do a nice job of organizing the standard jigs. My problem with the kits is that I have too many jigs (eg. seven knife jigs). I am not the target market for the kits.

Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ukfraser on July 23, 2020, 09:49:18 pm
Thought id continue this thread rather than start a new one in the general section where it really belongs Ken.

Tormek TT-50 Diamond Truing Devic

If one buys a new tormek, do you have to true the wheel first,  or do they come with wheels already true enough to start sharpening planes and chisels?

Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ken S on July 23, 2020, 10:35:42 pm
Good question. Here is part of page 124 of the handbook:

"The stone is not running true
The stone should run true radially (up and down) within ± 0,2 mm (total 0,4 mm or 0,016"). The axial (sideways) tolerance (which has no influence on the grinding result) is max
± 0,5 mm (total 1,0 mm or 0,04").
1. If the runout exceeds these tolerances, check that the shaft has not been bent. Replace the shaft if necessary.
2. If the stone has run out of true after a period of use, or if you want less tolerance than above – true the stone with the TORMEK Stone Truing Tool ADV-50D.“

Oops, the editor forgot to change ADV-50D to TT-50. The key part of the quote for me is: "If you want less tolerance than above - true the stone with the Tormek Stone Truing Tool [TT-50].

Initial truing the stone is considered good grinding practice in general. In truth, I suspect most Tormek users, especially new users do not true their stones when new. I confess that I did not. For workaday sharpening it may not matter. If you are striving for low BESS numbers, I would certainly true the wheel first.

Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ukfraser on July 27, 2020, 10:59:32 am
If you take the grass trimmer and shears out of the equation as it looks to be to much effort to undo some of them.

so its just the axe and normal woodworking tools. Would you still go for the t8 bearing in mind the t4 bushcraft is marketed to do axes and i have just the one axe and while it needs the occasional sharpening, it wont get sharpened that often once ive dealt with the hedge (and currently all gardening equipment just gets sharpened with a file and has done for the last 40 years). The main use will be planes and chisels and knives of which i have a good collection all maintained on a selection of oil and waterstone by hand and while the secondary angle is a bit steep on some, they have not been abused.

The t8 is more expensive but only by between 25 and 33% depending how you do the maths. I accept the guarantee is the same but it does look a better made machine. Its just a bigger initial hit and im not sure i need it. I keep deciding on the t4 where i can get all i need for less than a t8 but...
Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ken S on July 27, 2020, 01:44:22 pm
I think you should purchase the T8. If you choose the T4, part of you will always wish you had chosen the larger model. We are programmed that way by the marketing establishment. A Tormek is a very long term purchase. The difference in cost will seem less important over the years.

Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ukfraser on July 27, 2020, 05:05:56 pm
Thanks, i thought you promoted t4?   ;)

 I think i would regret buying a t 4 if it wasnt up to the task.
But equally i would regret buying a t8 if im not using it to its potential and a t4 would have been adequate.

The money i save will be put to good use, dust extraction system, fender telecaster,

 its more a question of getting the right one rather than marketing hype. My preference is still for the t4 provided its up to the task. That is my concern. 
Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ken S on July 27, 2020, 11:28:34 pm
The question of T4 vs T8 comes up frequently on some groups. Typical responses are; “I'm glad I bought the T8!";
"T8”, etc, etc, etc. The posters rarely specify why they prefer the T8. I don't recall any posters stating that they frequently sharpen large high speed drill bits, planer blades or reshape turning tools. These would be good reasons to favor a T8 with its larger motor. I would respect answers like these. I am leery of opinions which do not include any supporting evidence. I have nothing against the T8. In fact, I have a T8 and a T7. No complaints with either of them, until I have to move them. They weigh twice the weight of a T4, and I am seventy.

If I could only have one Tormek, I would be satisfied with any of the three. If I want more "power", I switch to a coarser wheel. Tormek's DWC coarse diamond wheel for the T2, which also works perfectly well with the T4, cuts noticeably faster than the SG (in either diameter). So does a coarser CBN wheel.A Norton 3X 46 or 80 grit wheel makes the T4 into a "Turbo Tormek". I have never felt limited to the two grinding wheels which Tormek has decided to market for the T4.

All of the jigs work with either size. I rarely read of anyone who purchased a T4 and then sold it to get a T8. The used market for Tormek is very strong.

I don't believe you would go wrong with either model. I advocate deciding by intended use, rather than cost. I recommend you listen to other users besides me. Make them provide real world answers.


Title: Re: Garden tools
Post by: Ukfraser on July 30, 2020, 08:41:19 pm
Ken, thank you for all your advice and incredible patience!

Your statement 'I don't believe you would go wrong with either model' and a web review Convinced me that the t4 would be the right model For me and it has arrived today. This has all been done on lockdown so online but it certainly looks the business!

I will practice on the george adams chisels i inherited from my father in law which i use for garden carpentry (greenhouse, cold frames, pergolas, gates and trellis) Before i try it out on my woodworking tools including planes and box wood handle marples bevel chisels.

More jigs next month including the truing tool!

Take care!