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In the Shop => General Tormek Questions => Topic started by: mptvexl on June 15, 2022, 07:10:16 pm

Title: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 15, 2022, 07:10:16 pm
Hi I borrowed a wheel dresser from a friend to true up my wheel.   It's a fairly old basic model that has no screw thread adjustments just an attachment that goes on the bar running across the wheel to which you slide on the square section tube which has the diamond dresser in it.  When he gave it to me he pointed out the the jagged edge of the diamond saying that this is what is cutting.  I've trued my stone but noticed later that the diamond tip was smooth.  I looked on line and all the diamond tips I've looked at are smooth but when he lent it to me it was definitely rough feeling.. Am I just unfortunate and the tip wore out whilst I was using it or is it still good.  Remember it is an old style dresser.  I've added some photos.  Thanks for looking Michael
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: cbwx34 on June 15, 2022, 08:51:42 pm
Hi I borrowed a wheel dresser from a friend to true up my wheel.   It's a fairly old basic model that has no screw thread adjustments just an attachment that goes on the bar running across the wheel to which you slide on the square section tube which has the diamond dresser in it.  When he gave it to me he pointed out the the jagged edge of the diamond saying that this is what is cutting.  I've trued my stone but noticed later that the diamond tip was smooth.  I looked on line and all the diamond tips I've looked at are smooth but when he lent it to me it was definitely rough feeling.. Am I just unfortunate and the tip wore out whilst I was using it or is it still good.  Remember it is an old style dresser.  I've added some photos.  Thanks for looking Michael

The diamonds are embedded in that copper colored tip... it's designed to wear away and expose new diamonds.  Look at it under magnification, and you should see some small diamond particles.  You can see some pics in this thread...

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3647.0

... and some more info in this thread...

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=4259.0

More information on your truing tool...

https://www.tormek.com/media/861601/hb10en_adv50d.pdf

Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 16, 2022, 10:02:32 am
Hi Thanks for the reply.  When he gave me the tool he pointed out the diamond which was definitely rough like you could feel the diamond which was like a set of points.  I'm just wondering if this was an old style.  I understand what you are saying as I have seen new ones on line and realise the technology of these.  If you look at the photo of the diamond tip I have given you can see the score marks from the wheel.  Well I can easily file it smooth.  I'm adding another photo so you can compare. M
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: cbwx34 on June 16, 2022, 01:41:52 pm
Hi Thanks for the reply.  When he gave me the tool he pointed out the diamond which was definitely rough like you could feel the diamond which was like a set of points.  I'm just wondering if this was an old style.  I understand what you are saying as I have seen new ones on line and realise the technology of these.  If you look at the photo of the diamond tip I have given you can see the score marks from the wheel.  Well I can easily file it smooth.  I'm adding another photo so you can compare. M

Although the design of the Truing Tool has changed, the copper tip with diamond embedded has not, as far as I can tell.  I have the same model as the one you're showing, as well as a new one, and they look the same to me.  It's designed to wear away and expose new diamond pieces.  The pdf I linked to earlier explains this.

I don't see a reason to file it smooth... it will wear in use.
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: 3D Anvil on June 16, 2022, 05:00:37 pm
I don't think there's any need to dress the tip, as the stone will wear the metal away.  But if for some reason you wanted to, I think you could put a *teensy* drop of ferric chloride on the tip and let it sit for a few minutes.  Then rinse with a water/baking soda mix to neutralize the acid.  That's how you recondition metallic bonded sharpening stones.  The acid eats away the metal and had no effect on the diamonds.
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 16, 2022, 05:22:28 pm
Hi  Thanks for the replies.  I only filed it to show how soft it was which I did with a old needle file that was to hand.  I would have thought it wouldn't file that easily.  I've looked at the pdf and I definitely don't have diamonds like that on this tip.  I am speculating that the tip does not expose more diamond as it wears down and going by some of the pictures where there the diamond spread is not uniform, like more diamond on one side than the other, suggests to me that the dresser loses it's diamonds eventually with use.  M
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: cbwx34 on June 16, 2022, 05:59:27 pm
Hi  Thanks for the replies.  I only filed it to show how soft it was which I did with a old needle file that was to hand.  I would have thought it wouldn't file that easily.  I've looked at the pdf and I definitely don't have diamonds like that on this tip.  I am speculating that the tip does not expose more diamond as it wears down and going by some of the pictures where there the diamond spread is not uniform, like more diamond on one side than the other, suggests to me that the dresser loses it's diamonds eventually with use.  M

It doesn't take a lot of diamonds to work... I guess the proof is in whether or not it trued the stone.  Here's the tips of the two I have...

(https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5034.0;attach=6556)

... either one will adequately true the stone.

If you're not seeing new diamonds being exposed, I suggest you (or the owner) contact Tormek support (support@tormek.se) and ask them about it.
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 16, 2022, 07:04:02 pm
Yeah I think that's the way to go.  If you look at my photos of the tip you will see nothing there that will compare to all the photos I am seeing.  Thanks M
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 22, 2022, 09:20:13 am
Hi to all those that helped me.  I just thought I would give a FYI about the diamond tip which I got from Tormek support and that is only the first 2.5-3 mm of the  tip has diamond in it and that mine has worn out. M
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: cbwx34 on June 22, 2022, 02:41:22 pm
Hi to all those that helped me.  I just thought I would give a FYI about the diamond tip which I got from Tormek support and that is only the first 2.5-3 mm of the  tip has diamond in it and that mine has worn out. M

Interesting, 'cause at this time in the video Tormek put out yesterday...

https://youtu.be/syUSkWdo5nY?t=1474

... he says you can use it until the tip is "even with the surface" it's mounted in.   ???
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 22, 2022, 06:28:07 pm
Hi Before I ordered a new one I I checked out the tip by sanding it on belt sander, gently mind and no new diamonds appeared. So from an unbiased tester what they told me in the email seems to be right.  Ok Having said all that what I think happens from new is that when you get it the tip is smooth but as soon as you start using it the copper in between the diamond wears away exposing the diamond hence the rough feel but if you look at all the close-up photos you can see the dispersal of the diamond is not uniform so every time you use it the copper holding the diamond can at times wear away and therefore the diamond becomes unstable,  A bit like a wobbly tooth in bad gums and eventually it falls out  As for the video, well lets face it, it's an advert but in my recent experience the tip is mostly copper and will not last to the housing surface.  Ok just to make a point I have just gone down and held the dresser tip to the stone and I'm attaching the photos by increments #1 being the first grind #2 being the second and so forth until I'm within a smidge of the housing at which point I went no further so as to respect my friends loan and to me there are no more diamonds present.  looks like I'm going to have to post the remaining photos in the next post
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 22, 2022, 06:30:43 pm
The last photos
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 22, 2022, 06:31:56 pm
Aint no new diamonds in that thar dresser
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: cbwx34 on June 22, 2022, 07:56:07 pm
Aint no new diamonds in that thar dresser

An interesting thread because both that video and the manual indicate (or at least imply) the copper has diamonds throughout.

Quote from: From the manual p.138
The cutting tip consists of diamond grains embedded in a cylinder of copper. The grains are
positioned irregularly like “raisins in a cake”. During use, the soft copper will be worn and the
diamond grains will stick out as peaks on the copper surface. Worn grains will after a period
of time be replaced by new ones. This design gives a long life to the tip.

Certainly different than what you've found! 
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 22, 2022, 08:06:37 pm
Reality bites
Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: Stickan on June 23, 2022, 04:03:21 pm
Hi,
A diamond tip last's many stones lifetime if the user is careful. The model shown in the pictures was made before we had the adjustable nut on the support-bar as standard and I can see that it might have worn down faster than the set-up we have today with the TT-50 and US-105 with micro adjuster. It was more difficult to set it at a specific height.

They wear down faster when you remove a thick layer of stone. Then the stone wears down the copper from the side and the diamond will loosen faster. When I use a TT-50 I mostly set it around 1/2 step and rather go faster over the stone several times, and finish with the stone grader on its course side to smooth it out. Then the surface looks like a new stone too.

Luckily, I learn new things about our product too on a regular basis and I was told that diamonds can be up to 5mm in the tip, so more than we have learned in this tread.

Best,
Stig




Title: Re: diamond tip dresser
Post by: mptvexl on June 23, 2022, 04:56:08 pm
To be fair to myself I was pretty easy going on the stone but there we are. M