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Messages - RickKrung

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1
Knife Sharpening / Re: Introduction and first post
« on: Today at 03:17:56 pm »
I looked at the video.  He certainly does use the same angle for honing.  However, I did not find where he says WHY he used the same angle.  I watched all of the video in the honing phase and scanned the grinding phase for mention of his rationale for the angles used.  Didn't find it.  Perhaps it is in some of the other material.  I do like the video as it shows that the stock Tormek system is fully capable of producing very sharp edges, dispelling the myth that specialty grinding wheels and honing methods are necessary. 

The video is from June 2018, prior to Vadim's release of his deburring book where he goes into significant detail about the types of burrs and why different angles are needed for different types of steels.  He does discuss using the same angle for honing as grinding, but mostly in regard to the harder steels (negative burrs).  The first "version" of his deburring book that I have is actually an article he published on his web site, ~Oct. 2018.  I have two versions of his actual book, 4th Oct. 2019 and 5th June 2020 (I know I had earlier versions as I've followed it all along, must have just dumped the earlier ones).  All of these discuss the use of various angles higher than the grinding angle depending on the type of steel.  My assessment is that the video does not provide a reason for use of the same angle and appears to me to be superseded by his later works in these versions of his deburring book. 

In a way, it does not really matter.  You are getting good results using the methods you use and you seem satisfied.  As CB suggests, I think that you should try some other honing angles based on steel types and see how your results vary.  I would also try initially honing at the same angle and then reset the angle slightly higher and do a second stage of honing.  Although the grit would be the same, it may provide some polishing benefit and might even result in more sharpness directly from honing before taking it to the hanging strop. 

Rick

2
Knife Sharpening / Re: Introduction and first post
« on: Today at 04:03:15 am »
...snip...
Yes,  I have his book. I used his FVB and applet to set and control the angles. I understood from what I have read, from a lot of sources, that if all you have for sharpening is a Tormek with grinding wheel and leather wheel, you should stick to the sharpening angle. Other wise, due to differences in the bevel going from 250mm wheel to 215, there is a real and present risk of either rolling the edge, or only honing the shoulder of the bevel, so on the leather wheel, i stuck to the grinding angle.

Interesting.  I must have missed that one.  Could you reference that source here, please?  Whether using either honing wheel (leather or composite) or my 10" rock hard felt wheel, I use an angle app to set the angle in that 0.5-2 deg. higher angle for all knives, depending on the type of steel.  Haven't run into issues with the edge rolling, etc. However, I do use a Tormek SJ wheel, at the sharpening angle first, so that may a significant difference. 
 
Out of interest, my brother bought home most of a deer from a recent hunting trip. We processed it for freezing yesterday. Before we started, I sharpened a SWIBO boning knife and got two BESS readings in the low 70's, using the exact same approach as I detailed above.

Perhaps the boning knife is a different (better) steel and takes a better edge.  Or, maybe your technique is developing.  Or both.  Or chance. 

Rick

3
Knife Sharpening / Re: Introduction and first post
« on: Yesterday at 05:13:05 pm »
...snip...
Attached are pre and post cheap(very) USB microscope pictures of the knife I sharpened tonight with a 12° per side edge. The knife is nothing special. It doesn't even have a brand on it. Had it in the kitchen for years.

Prior to any sharpening, I got an average BESS reading of 749

After 5 passes each side on a Tormek very fine diamond wheel, and 3 passes each side on the Tormek leather wheel with Tormek honing paste, I got an average BESS reading of 294.

After 5 strokes per side on a plain Kangaroo tail strop, I got an average BESS reading of 112.

I'm very pleased with the result. All that is required now is to train SWMBO no to use the glass cutting board.

I'm sure I'll pick up some more tricks off the forum as time goes on.

Welcome to the forum.  It sounds like you are well on you way.  If you've discovered KG's YT videos, have you also studied material on the general website?  An immense treasure trove of info there, almost too muck, one could become lost in options/methods. 

112 BESS is pretty good, but the jump from 294 after deburring on the leather wheel to stropping on the tail seems huge.  I think you may want to focus a bit more on the "burr".  Creating it, removing it.  You didn't say what other grinding occurred prior to the diamond DE wheel.  It is critical to bring both bevels to a clean apex, creating a positively discern-able burr.  I would not want to be trying that with just the DE wheel.  This of course depends on how dull the edge is to begin with.  I prefer to use coarser wheels to be sure I reach the apex, remove nicks, etc. and raise a serious burr, then work it down with successively finer grinding/polishing/deburring steps.  Vadim showed us through his work how the angle of honing is very important for deburring, whether on the stock honing wheels or other wheels such as paper and felt.  Have you read his book on deburring?  I have never been proficient at freehand honing; rather I find the angle control, increasing the angle slightly over the grinding angle to be superb at removing the burr.  How are you doing the deburring? 

I find magnification of the apex to be extremely helpful.  I use a 60X hand microscope to eyeball the entire length of the apex, from both sides.  I'm not sure how your cheap USB camera does at extreme magnification, but if the images you attached are it, that would not be adequate for me.  I use a Kingmas 60X "currency detecting" microscope.  Do a search on the term "Kingmas" and you can read prior posts on this, including links of where to get them.  This hand microscope is an "essential" tool for me. 

Please keep us informed of your progress. 

Rick

4
General Tormek Questions / Re: KJ-45 & gardening tools
« on: June 21, 2022, 02:33:20 am »

The new Tormek KJ-45 jig makes for an easy time when resharpening my Japanese weeding sickle. Really nice innovation.

I have one of those sickles and love it.  It's bevel is one sided.  What does the KJ bring to this that the regular jig doesn't? 

Rick

5
First of all, I am very curious how you used the scissors jig for sharpening a machete.  You phrase it as "using the scissors jig mod", so I'm wondering what "mod"?  I would appreciate seeing a photo or more of your setup.  I've sharpened machetes, but it has been so long, I don't actually recall how I did it.  I think free-hand on a platform, as they do not require the same care and type of edge that the Tormek jigs provide. 

To your question, though, of keeping water off the machine, there is a 3D printed product available that may help to a point, but I think not enough to solve your issue.  When I did fuss with this for longer knives using the knife jigs, I put tin-foil over the machine that drained to the water trough - the same solution as the 3D printed thing. 

I think I'd try a couple things.  Putting a protective cover of the entire top area of the machine to keep water off the drive wheel and switch.  I'd likely try the tin-foil as it can be shaped and molded and the edges can be bent up to keep water from draining off. 

To get your switch working again, you may have to dry it out, say with a hair dryer directed at the switch/case for a while to evaporate the water. 

6
Knife Sharpening / Re: Do I need the KJ-140?
« on: May 26, 2022, 09:36:48 pm »
I purchased my SVM-140 shortly after I purchased my T7 in 2009. I did not use it until I incorporated it into my kenjig program. I used the SVM-45 with the SVM-00 for paring knives; an out of production SVM-100 for slicing knives; and my SVM-140 for chef's knives. This essentially eliminated almost all need to adjust the jigs.

I have never used my SVM-140 as intended.

Will I ever use my KJ-140? I think so. All of the self centering attention seems to be focused on correction for thick knives. According to the Wootz video on centering, the SVM-140 is optimized for knives 3mm thick. (This seems very thick for a "thin knife" jig.) The KJ-140 automatically self centers for thin knives, a notable improvement. I don't believe I will have much need for this feature; however, the jig is not expensive and makes quick work of centering thin longer knives when needed.

Ken

I think you would be just fine without the KJ-140, in the context of the "thin" knives, since they are the ones both the SVM and KJ -140 jigs are aimed at. 

3mm is about 0.118".  That is actually fairly thick for a "thin" knife.  A very large number of the knives I've come across are 0.100" (2.54mm) and less.  I am probably one of the few, if not the only one, who has modified several of my SVM-45s in the manner that Wootz did and described on his web site and in one of his video, by milling away either 0.5 or 1.0mm from the fixed jaws so that shims can be used to center the blade.  That was more targeted at blades THICKER than 2.5-3mm, but does not preclude using those modified jigs for thinner blades.  I do it all the time, every time I work on more than a couple knives.

I worked up a shim reference table, showing how think of a shim is needed for each .005" of blade thickness.  (Attached below as a PDF file as well.)


I also shortened a set of stainless steel feeler gauges (by about 1/2) so they fit the SVM-45 jigs better and keep that set and a full sized set on snap rings for easy selection and access when setting up blades.  I only need the full-sized shims when using the -140 jigs but do use them when the blades are long enough that the length of the shims does not interfere with sharpening.  I am certain I posted on this at the time. 

Up to a thickness of 0.180" (~4.5mm), more than half of the blades require shimming regardless of whether the jig has been modified or not.  Shim thicknesses range from 0.000" in an unmodified jig for a 0.100" thick blade (either -45 or -140) to 0.075" for a 0.030" thick blade in a jig modified by removing 1.0mm. From my shim table, you can see that it is fully usable for the unmodified -140 jigs up to a bit over .0100" (to 3.0mm if one uses Wootz's number). 

Wootz's implementation of the jig modification is a most elegant solution to the very old issue of asymmetric bevels and in my opinion and use, negates the slightest need for the new compromised self-centering jig.  It is a shame it hasn't seen more widespread use. 

Rick

7
General Tormek Questions / Re: Repainting my new-to-me 2000
« on: May 25, 2022, 05:10:47 pm »
As a first wheel, I would follow the traditional Tormek advice and start with the SG-250.
Ken

Do I need the truing tool if I buy the stone wheel?

Yes  :)

And a stone grader.  But...  Please do not be daunted by what will seem high initial costs.  There truly is a lot of learning to be had using these before you can really make good use of the others. 

Rick

8
General Tormek Questions / Re: Repainting my new-to-me 2000
« on: May 25, 2022, 12:48:45 am »
As a first wheel, I would follow the traditional Tormek advice and start with the SG-250. With CBN or diamond, each wheel is limited to one grit and the grit is only one layer deep.

Ken

I have to agree.  If I had to have just one wheel, it would be the SG.  There is a lot of learning to be had there, very important before you can really make use of the specialty wheels like diamond or CBN.  To use the diamond and/or CBN wheels, you have to have a couple or several.  That makes an SG as a starter a heck of a lot cheaper if you find this system not to your liking. 

Rick

9
Knife Sharpening / Re: backlash
« on: May 23, 2022, 12:55:32 am »
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10
Knife Sharpening / Re: backlash
« on: May 22, 2022, 10:40:26 pm »
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11
Knife Sharpening / Re: backlash
« on: May 22, 2022, 07:07:07 pm »
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12
...snip...
It only exists on my computer right now.  ;)
...snip...
p.s. The QR code is my avatar picture.

That's what I was missing.  Duh.  Nice to know (sort of), though, that I wouldn't have found it had I found the QR thingy. ;D

Rick

13
I'm a happy user of your GoCalc app and don't fell a need for something else for knives.  But for the platform, this app could be useful.  I went looking for this app.  I clicked on the link in your signature line, looking for the QR code.  I must be missing something - uh, the QR code - couldn't find it on any of the pages when I clicked on that line.  What am I missing on how to find the QR code?

Rick


14
One never knows, I guess.  But, I doubt it, not a large enough market of users who have both 1) the DBS and 2) the workstation. 

Rick

15
General Tormek Questions / Re: Honing
« on: May 11, 2022, 08:03:11 pm »
...snip...  Take your time and learn in stages or you risk mediocre results at a lot of steps.

Makes me think of the Grasshopper in the Karate Kid...

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