Author Topic: Sharpen this tip  (Read 2268 times)

Offline troflog

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Sharpen this tip
« on: August 06, 2018, 10:59:48 am »
I struggle with this knife:

https://www.2080.no/victorinox/364117/victorinox-slaktekniv-l-180mm-med-fibroxsgrep
Tried to lift the knife but I still miss the tip. Should I freehand? When I lift the knife to much, the jig goes of the rail.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 12:58:29 pm by troflog »

Offline WolfY

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 01:10:22 pm »
Hej troflog,

Not 100% if I understand but to me it seems like you are clamping the knife jig in the middle of the knife. Try to clamp it about 5~7cm from the tip so you have about same distance from jig gard to the tip and the edge. Then when you sharpen you have to both lift and pull the handle so you are at about same spot (angle wise)on the stone.
Is this knife 180mm as indicated on the site?

This VDO I made on long butcher knife with about same characteristics as yours but 310mm long. I'm using a specially made USB for that long knifes.
https://youtu.be/YiDGR7DnUt0
Hope it will help you a little.
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Knowing which advice is worth adopting and which not, is a virtue.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 01:47:42 pm »
Very good question, Troflog. Outstanding reply, WolfY.

Tormek made the longer support bar. It was discontinued, but then made available in limited production recently. I purchased one and have found it useful. The product number is US-400 (Universal Support, 400mm length). The only dealer to carry it is the United States is sharpeningmadeeasy. For Norway, I would check with support. I think it is still available.

A good alternative is the extended support made by forum member Robin C Bailey in the UK.

Please note in WolfY's you tube how he rests his left hand on the support bar. This gives good support to to the handle end of the blade.

WolfY, you are an example of this forum at its best. You have encountered a sharpening problem and have found and shared a very practical solution for it. Outstanding!

Ken

Offline troflog

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 03:35:40 pm »
Hej troflog,

Not 100% if I understand but to me it seems like you are clamping the knife jig in the middle of the knife. Try to clamp it about 5~7cm from the tip so you have about same distance from jig gard to the tip and the edge. Then when you sharpen you have to both lift and pull the handle so you are at about same spot (angle wise)on the stone.
Is this knife 180mm as indicated on the site?

This VDO I made on long butcher knife with about same characteristics as yours but 310mm long. I'm using a specially made USB for that long knifes.
https://youtu.be/YiDGR7DnUt0
Hope it will help you a little.

Hello
Yea this is exactly my problem :D. I need to find out where to buy this in Norway. The knife is a non branded 300 mm knife with this shape.

Offline WolfY

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 05:26:53 pm »
Ken thanks for your kind words.

The small USB is not enough for the long knives. Common problem to every knife sharpener.
I believe Tormek see it as a small market and not worth making a long one too. It will not fit the machine box.

truflog, you can go to any workshop that deal with SS and ask them to weld it for you. Remember to measure the SS rod so it is not over 12mm. also explain that it is essential that the rod will not bend when welding ( minor bending is OK). Not need to over weld it cause then it will bend. Not much force is put on the USB. 46cm long. 20cm legs. No thread.

Good luck.
Giving an advice is easy.
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Knowing which advice is worth adopting and which not, is a virtue.

Offline cbwx34

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 10:30:27 pm »
Or perhaps consider the Homemade Knife Rest.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 06:45:36 am »
CB makes a good point. I still think your best solution is to have Tormek support (support@tormek.se) or your dealer locate a US-400 for you. However, I have often posted that one of Herman's homemade small platforms should be a part of every serious Tormek sharpener's kit. The big Tormek platform works well for its intended purpose, sharpening woodturning scrapers. It is too large to work well with small knives. Herman has sharpened a machete with his platform; it is not limited to small knives.

Ken

Offline troflog

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2018, 01:18:09 pm »
Hello
Just a follow up on tip sharpening. I am a little confused when it comes to the correct correct technique for sharpen a curved tip. According to the videos I should pick up the knife when I approach the curved tip. But in which direction. Should it be parallell to the stone radius?

Found this video on Youtube which gives the correct solution, but I have a litte trouble with transfering this technique to the round tormek stone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFhUXgYS0Os


Offline cbwx34

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 02:46:59 pm »
Hello
Just a follow up on tip sharpening. I am a little confused when it comes to the correct correct technique for sharpen a curved tip. According to the videos I should pick up the knife when I approach the curved tip. But in which direction. Should it be parallell to the stone radius?

Found this video on Youtube which gives the correct solution, but I have a litte trouble with transfering this technique to the round tormek stone:


The short answer... if there isn't a lot of curve in the belly/tip area, you can just lift the handle as you approach the tip.  If there is a lot of curve, then rotation is the better method.  In some cases, you have to do a bit of both.  There is a thread that talks about this in length... To Pivot or Not to Pivot.

The other issue though, is setting the knife in the clamp so that, when you rotate the knife, the contact area on the stone doesn't move, because (as you already figured out) that will change the angle.  That is shown in this thread... The One Change You Should Make to the Tormek.

Jan has created a template for setting the knife in the (unmodified) jig that will help keep it in the correct location... Knife Point Setting Template.

So to summarize  ::)  there is no real "right" method.  The easiest way is to get a few practice knives, mark the bevel with a Sharpie marker, and practice both methods (lifting and/or pivoting), to see what works best for you.  One main point to remember... where you place the belly/tip area in relation to the clamp, will determine the angle that it is sharpened at.  (This is what Jan's template helps with).

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 03:09:13 pm »
Well stated, CB.

Ken

Offline troflog

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 09:53:05 am »
Hello
Just a follow up on tip sharpening. I am a little confused when it comes to the correct correct technique for sharpen a curved tip. According to the videos I should pick up the knife when I approach the curved tip. But in which direction. Should it be parallell to the stone radius?

Found this video on Youtube which gives the correct solution, but I have a litte trouble with transfering this technique to the round tormek stone:


The short answer... if there isn't a lot of curve in the belly/tip area, you can just lift the handle as you approach the tip.  If there is a lot of curve, then rotation is the better method.  In some cases, you have to do a bit of both.  There is a thread that talks about this in length... To Pivot or Not to Pivot.

The other issue though, is setting the knife in the clamp so that, when you rotate the knife, the contact area on the stone doesn't move, because (as you already figured out) that will change the angle.  That is shown in this thread... The One Change You Should Make to the Tormek.

Jan has created a template for setting the knife in the (unmodified) jig that will help keep it in the correct location... Knife Point Setting Template.

So to summarize  ::)  there is no real "right" method.  The easiest way is to get a few practice knives, mark the bevel with a Sharpie marker, and practice both methods (lifting and/or pivoting), to see what works best for you.  One main point to remember... where you place the belly/tip area in relation to the clamp, will determine the angle that it is sharpened at.  (This is what Jan's template helps with).

Thank you very much for a very good answer. I see that I have a lot to read before I really masters the Tormek. Comming from 5 years with free hand sharpening on japanese water stone I thought that Tormek should be easy to use:)

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpen this tip
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 01:11:19 pm »
Troflog,

One of the reasons it does not seem easy to master the Tormek is that we keep raising our expectations as we learn more. We don't just make tools sharper. That is not difficult with a Tormek. We expect identical bevels on our knives with consistent and repeatable angles. We want to be able to optimize the bevel angles for maximum sharpness and endurance. (Read Wootz' postsabout working with the meat industry. His work is fascinating and pioneering.)

We not only want our Tormeks to be able to sharpen drill bits, we want four facet grinding and equal lips for maximum cutting accuracy. We want an incredible amount of versatility to easily customize our drill bits to the metal and application.

Like you, I came to the Tormek after using waterstones and oilstones for many years. After nine years of using the Tormek, I have finally set up my wood lathe. I can do basic gouge and skew chisel sharpening with the Tormek. I want to be able to sharpen an Alan Lacer skew on my Tormek. I have two difficulties with this. First, the tool is slightly larger than the present design of the Multi jig's closed seat. When I get the skew, I think getting it to fit will just be a matter of some filing.

The second difficulty is my present skill level. Sharpening flat chisels or adding camber to plane blades is no problem. I can sharpen a flat skew. I think I can sharpen a skew with a radius. My problem is that I want to sharpen with the Lacer grind, which combines a flat area, about one third of the edge, with a radius ground on the other part of the blade. I will be able to do this, just not at my present skill level. It will require study and focused practice. It reminds me that I have not yet mastered the Tormek at my desired expectation level.

You are in plenty of good company. Enjoy the learning journey.

A fellow learner,

Ken