Author Topic: The one change you should make to the Tormek...  (Read 869 times)

Offline cbwx34

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2018, 10:15:04 pm »
I've gotten a bit sidetracked on the collar stuff, but oh well.  :o

I put together 2 stop collars, to see what having something actually attached to the USB, but able to pivot side to side would do, coming up with this...



... basically, I put in a bit longer screw, affixed one stop collar to the knife jig so it doesn't move, with just enough of the screw sticking out to attach the other stop collar, but not enough so the screw doesn't contact the USB, and the collar can slide freely on the USB.

The advantages... it does a great job of keeping the knife correctly oriented to the stone.  If nothing else it would make a great training tool of how to move the knife, since it essentially guides it along one plane.

The disadvantages... it requires more attention be paid to where in the jig the knife is, especially the belly to tip area... since you can't make adjustments lifting up or down to compensate at all.  It also may not work with all knife styles, for example recurves, where the knife has to be maneuvered in the recurve area by tipping the knife down.

But the biggest disadvantage is, this setup really doesn't work.  I can't turn the knife over without taking the knife out of the clamp (or taking the whole thing apart)... so in that respects it's a fail.

So, thought I'd post it and see what others might come up with?  I know kwakster posted earlier using a "swivel bar mount" and "linear ball bearing"... but am looking for other ideas... thought this might inspire some.  I like it being attached to the USB, able to slide back and forth, and controlling the knife along one plane... (which should work for most knives).  If you're used to other Tormek jigs that connect to the USB, I think it provides a bit more accuracy and consistency (tell me if you agree or not).   ???

(More of an "idea" post, then a "look what I invented" post... if that makes sense).

Edit to add: A quick overhead shot of how it pivots (since my description may not make much sense), and of course it also slides on the USB...

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 10:35:39 pm by cbwx34 »

Offline RickKrung

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2018, 02:56:30 am »
I put together 2 stop collars, to see what having something actually attached to the USB, but able to pivot side to side would do, coming up with this...



But the biggest disadvantage is, this setup really doesn't work.  I can't turn the knife over without taking the knife out of the clamp (or taking the whole thing apart)... so in that respects it's a fail.

CB,

Add a third collar above the one clamped to the jig shaft, lock that third one to set the projection and unlock the bottom one so the jig can rotate. 

Actually, I think it would work to shorten the adjustable stop an appropriate amount and use it in place of that third collar and you would have your continuous and quick projection, same as the unmodified adjustable stop. 

Rick
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 03:06:02 am by RickKrung »

Offline cbwx34

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2018, 03:40:35 pm »
CB,

Add a third collar above the one clamped to the jig shaft, lock that third one to set the projection and unlock the bottom one so the jig can rotate. 

Actually, I think it would work to shorten the adjustable stop an appropriate amount and use it in place of that third collar and you would have your continuous and quick projection, same as the unmodified adjustable stop. 

Rick

Not sure I quite get this.  (Just to be clear, not being able to flip the knife over to the other side, is the main issue I have in this case).

Offline Ken S

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2018, 04:23:00 pm »
The design of the adjustable stop (collar) has puzzled me for a long time. Like most of us, my first exposure to knife sharpening with the Tormek was watching Jeff Farris' video. He specifically stated that he lifted the knife for the tip; he did not rotate it. If so, why does the adjustable stop have a radius along the outside? Wouldn't a flat plane work better?

I realize different styles of knives may have different requirements. In that case, wouldn't a knife jig with interchangeable threaded stops be better? The multi jig has this feature. This is a situation where I wish I had machinist skills.

The Tormek design seems a well balanced general design. We would like more specific solutions.

Ken

Offline cbwx34

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2018, 05:45:26 pm »
Add a third collar above the one clamped to the jig shaft, lock that third one to set the projection and unlock the bottom one so the jig can rotate. 

Actually, I think it would work to shorten the adjustable stop an appropriate amount and use it in place of that third collar and you would have your continuous and quick projection, same as the unmodified adjustable stop. 

Rick

I think Rick might be a genius.  :)  Especially finding such a simple solution.

He had to explain it to me in an email ('cause I'm not)... but adding a collar on the jig like this...



... and 'freeing' the middle collar so the jig can rotate seems to solve the rotation problem.  (I added another collar so the jig can't move in either direction, but still rotate... glad I bought a bag of these haha).

Need to try it out, but just a quick check... seems to work well.

Love simple solutions.   ;D

Offline RichColvin

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2018, 10:12:18 pm »
It looks like you made an SVD-186 for knives. 
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Offline RickKrung

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2018, 10:34:40 pm »
I have an idea on how to make it so the jig can be lifted as well, but I’m traveling again so can’t work on it until I get home tonight.

Rick

Offline cbwx34

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2018, 11:50:45 pm »
It looks like you made an SVD-186 for knives.

Wow... yeah it kinda does.... except for the lack of a pivot.

I don't have one, but from the pictures... will a knife jig fit in the part that slides on the USB?

Might be a platform to build off of...  ???


I have an idea on how to make it so the jig can be lifted as well, but I’m traveling again so can’t work on it until I get home tonight.

Rick

No hurry... haven't even had a chance to test this one.
Thanks for your help BTW.  :)


...
The Tormek design seems a well balanced general design. We would like more specific solutions.

Ken

Always!  :D

Offline RickKrung

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2018, 12:21:12 am »
I have an idea on how to make it so the jig can be lifted as well, but I’m traveling again so can’t work on it until I get home tonight.

Rick

How much lift is needed?  25mm?  50mm?  Essentially, I plan on attaching vertically aligned pins to the front face of a collar, like yours. The front face of the pins will be the surface in contact with the USB and what the jig is rotated on. The jig will be free to be lifted. So, how high?

Rick

Offline cbwx34

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2018, 01:20:26 am »
How much lift is needed?  25mm?  50mm?  Essentially, I plan on attaching vertically aligned pins to the front face of a collar, like yours. The front face of the pins will be the surface in contact with the USB and what the jig is rotated on. The jig will be free to be lifted. So, how high?

Rick

I don't know what to measure to answer your question.  With the current setup, I can lift the handle without rotating the knife (similar to the standard jig with Jeff Farris instructions that Ken reference).  And, I can rotate and lift the handle if needed.  So, don't know what direction you're referencing... for me to measure.   :-\

Offline RickKrung

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2018, 03:03:02 am »
How much lift is needed?  25mm?  50mm?  Essentially, I plan on attaching vertically aligned pins to the front face of a collar, like yours. The front face of the pins will be the surface in contact with the USB and what the jig is rotated on. The jig will be free to be lifted. So, how high?

Rick

I don't know what to measure to answer your question.  With the current setup, I can lift the handle without rotating the knife (similar to the standard jig with Jeff Farris instructions that Ken reference).  And, I can rotate and lift the handle if needed.  So, don't know what direction you're referencing... for me to measure.   :-\

I was thinking wrongly.  I was thinking the jig/collar was lifted off of the USB.  With the pins that I envision, the jig could be lifted off of the USB, but that changes the angle.  I'm still going to make a collar with pins, as I think it provides a more precise rotation point and help keep the jig from slipping up and forward.  I'll make them fairly short, say 20-25mm.

Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2018, 05:26:43 am »
CB,

At the risk of sounding nice, your photography is first-rate. Keep up the good work!

:)

Ken

Offline cbwx34

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2018, 03:55:41 pm »
I was thinking wrongly.  I was thinking the jig/collar was lifted off of the USB.  With the pins that I envision, the jig could be lifted off of the USB, but that changes the angle.  I'm still going to make a collar with pins, as I think it provides a more precise rotation point and help keep the jig from slipping up and forward.  I'll make them fairly short, say 20-25mm.

Rick

Cool.  8)

Rotating on a pin should be a good idea... this current "3 collar" setup rotates on the screw, and it has a nice feel to it.

I need to find an alternative to the screw holding the 2 collars together though... hasn't happened yet, ('cause I haven't really used it much), but I suspect that it's going to come apart since the two collars rotate back and forth... can't imagine it's not turning the screw, and there's not a lot of length holding them together (since neither side of the screw can touch the USB or knife jig in this setup).  :-\

CB,

At the risk of sounding nice, your photography is first-rate. Keep up the good work!

:)

Ken

You're scaring me.  ::)  :D      Thanks!  :)

Offline RichColvin

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2018, 06:02:07 pm »
Here are some pictures of the SVM-100 in the SVD-186 jig piece :



Seems to fit well.

If someone wants to try it and doesn't own the SVD-186 or SVD-185, you can buy the part separately.
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Offline RickKrung

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Re: The one change you should make to the Tormek...
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2018, 07:14:52 pm »
Here are some pictures of the SVM-100 in the SVD-186 jig piece :

Seems to fit well.

If someone wants to try it and doesn't own the SVD-186 or SVD-185, you can buy the part separately.

Always nice to have options, but what I don't get is WHY would one do this.  It allows rotation but removes tilting and pivoting.  As far as knives go, I don't see it, but there could be other applications where a strict perpendicularity is good.  Help me out, please.

BTW, you might want to do this the honor of having its own thread. 

Rick