Author Topic: using diamond wheels  (Read 2131 times)

Offline Ken S

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using diamond wheels
« on: June 11, 2018, 11:41:58 pm »
I had another opportunity to work with the new diamond wheels this afternoon. I am working with chisels. I will get to knives; I learn best with chisels. I found that 125 ml of water and 5ml of Honerite Gold worked well with a T8 and a ten inch CBN wheel. The same can work with a T8, 250mm diamond wheel and ACC. However, as we will be frequently switching wheels, I would add another 25ml of water, making the new amount 150ml of water and 6ml of ACC.


Working with chisels, I turn the Tormek ninety degrees, so that I am facing the grinding wheel. That means that I hold the knife jig by wrapping my hand around the part attached to the universal support bar, This reduces my leverage considerably from lifting on the chisel handle and pushing down on the chisel blade. This seems to fit the idea of grinding with a very light touch.

Before removing the water trough give it time to catch the water draining from the diamond wheel. This will prevent a lot of water spillage.

I do not know how long the water with Anti Corrosion Compound will last. Tormek only states that the trough should be lowered if storing it over night. I will suggest a program. If anyone has other ideas, please feel free to state them. Keep in mind that this is for the T8. The water trough on the T7 and SuperGrind is larger due to the rectangular flat bottom. You might want to increase the amounts for a SuperGrind or T7. I will add follow up with the T7.

I have numerous empty 40 ounce plastic Jif peanut butter jars. Each easily holds in excess of 500ml of liquid. I suggest measuring 500ml of water in a jar and marking that level. In the future, just fill to that line. In a small graduate or plastic cough medicine cup, measure 20ml of ACC. Pour this in with the 500ml of water.This is your fresh working solution. Use a graduate or smaller jar marked with your trough amount. Fill this from the fresh solution jar.

When you finish a sharpening session, lower the trough and allow the wheel to drip. Siphon the water from the water to a second peanut butter jar marked "One Use". As Tormek has not given any reuse suggestions, I do not know how many times you can reuse the solution. I would use fresh solution for special or valuable work. I would reserve solution nearing the end of useful life for original Tormek grinding wheels. We have used plain water with them for decades. I do not think weakened ACC would cause them any harm. Remember that original grinding wheels are absorbent.

Filling the water trough for side grinding will require some guess work. Begin with twice the amount for face grinding. If necessary, add gradually to that. It takes less that you think. Remember, these diamond wheels can also be used dry. Fill gradually.

From a thrift stand point, I would only fill enough for side grinding if you will actually be side grinding.

I have much work to do with this project. I will get to knives. No word on my Multi Base yet. I will update as things develop. Comments welcome.

Ken

Offline SharpenADullWitt

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 05:34:20 am »
Did you get paperwork with these wheels?
What are the grits (particularly the course)?  I tried to find it via the buying site the other day, and didn't.

How do the wheels deal with the water?  I wouldn't expect them to retain it, like a stone wheel, so I am wondering about using a sponge to get off any moisture that you might be trying to save.  (squeeze it into a container that is sitting on something magnetic, so particles get pulled towards the bottom, for reuse of fluid.
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Offline wootz

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 06:16:39 am »
Tormek website reads coarse is #360, fine #600 and extra-fine #1200

Offline Ken S

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 02:25:34 pm »
SADW,

The grit numbers are not the whole story. Working with diamond wheels really is different than working with what Tormek now calls "the original Tormek wheels".

Tormek has been very lean on information about the diamond wheels. I think this partly caused by the present facebook, sound bite marketing culture. We live in an environment where too many people just want to read Joe Sixpack's product review, "I bought this product fifteen minutes ago and like it.” Marketing people do not believe a customer wants to study a product before pulling out his credit card. (Apparently we are not the target market.) I do not blame Tormek for this. They must survive in today's businuss world.

I believe the other reason for this lean information is that Tormek does not know much about diamond wheels. Tormek has been making wet grinders for over forty years. The SG Super Grind wheel has been their standard bearer for almost that long. Torgny Jansson wrote the handbook around the SG wheel. How many thousands of hours has Tormek spent in teaching, demonstrating, and working with the SG? The Tormek knowledge of the SG is both extensive and deep. Much of it has not reached the main stream or the handbook, such as being able to use the stone grader for middle grades between 220 and 1000.

By comparison, their entry into diamond wheels is quite recent. Admittedly, Tormek develops new products slowly, however, a year is no substitute for a working life of extensive experience. I believe the diamond wheels present a new working curve, both for us and for Tormek.

Back to grit size. I have used the coarse grit, 360 grit, more than the other two grits. Both the new 250mm diameter and the T2 version seem to cut the same. I find they cut more aggressively than the SG or SB graded coarse. I do not completely understand why. My guess is that the grains are sharper. They not only start cutting better, they retain that cutting level. (These statements are based on the wheels after preliminary breaking in.)

I also no not understand the brief water retention. I would guess this amount is approximately a tablespoon. This is not a flood; it is an easily avoidable nuisance.

The little booklet which comes with the wheels basically says grind with very light pressure in several languages.

We have an interesting learning curve ahead. I believe the results will more than justify the effort.

Ken

Offline bisonbladesharpening

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 10:41:49 pm »
Hi All,
My question is about longevity of the stones.  From reading posts and
stevebot's experience with the black stone I am more than willing to spend the extra 30 on
a black stone.  I sharpen mainly culinary production knives and am wondering if the 360 grit diamond
will be worth the investment in cost per knife.

Appreciate any feedback

Best Wishes. Tim

Offline Ken S

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2018, 01:12:23 am »
Tim,

I can honestly say that after having the diamond wheels for an entire week, they show no signs of failing.  :)

I suggest you wait a while before deciding on the 360 grit diamond wheel.The first batch has not even arrived yet. My very limited use so far has been only with chisels. I believe the T2 was originally designed for the DWF-200 600 grit wheel. I would wait until we get some more working information.

Ken

Offline SharpenADullWitt

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2018, 10:24:52 pm »
SADW,

The grit numbers are not the whole story. Working with diamond wheels really is different than working with what Tormek now calls "the original Tormek wheels".

Back to grit size. I have used the coarse grit, 360 grit, more than the other two grits. Both the new 250mm diameter and the T2 version seem to cut the same. I find they cut more aggressively than the SG or SB graded coarse. I do not completely understand why. My guess is that the grains are sharper. They not only start cutting better, they retain that cutting level. (These statements are based on the wheels after preliminary breaking in.)


Ken
I have used the fine that comes with the T2, and it certainly does what it was designed for.  I have some other uses that I expect the coarse would be better suited for. (taking chips out of old blades/tool restoration, and other metal shaping work that may deal with things such as 7075 aluminum)
While the diamond is harder then stone, and the grains I do expect would be sharper (hardness, how shaped both by nature and man), I also expect the binding agent of the stone plays a part.  (as it comes off and sticks via surface tension, it would effectively change the grit/fill in voids, between the grains)
My want, is all three stones, my budget, may only allow for one at a time, hence my wondering and trying to fulfill certain needs.
Favorite line, from a post here:
8)

Yeah you know Tormek have reached sharpening nirvana when you get a prosthetic hand as part of the standard package :/)

Offline Ken S

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Re: using diamond wheels
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 10:03:29 pm »
SADW,

You have asked a very useful, real world question. Please correct me if I am mistaken. You have the 600 grit DWF-200 diamond wheel which came with your T2. Yes? I gather that you do not have the 360 grit DWC-200 diamond wheel for the T2?

You can use your DWF-200 wheel with your larger Tormeks. Just remove the washer from behind the grinding wheel on the T2 and add it behind the wheel when you place it on your larger Tormek. That will fill up the gap between the two sizes. This is not an ideal set up, however, it will work as well as any other 200mm (8”) wheel.

Since you already have a 600 grit diamond wheel, the first wheel I would purchase would be the coarse 360 grit wheel. I find it cuts more aggressively than either the SG or SG graded coarse. If, by chance, you already have the DWC-200, I would use the same logic and start with the 1200 grit wheel.
When you are saving for additional wheels, you can use the stone grader fine to the max.

Keep us posted.

Ken