Author Topic: Grit thoughts  (Read 1815 times)

Offline Herman Trivilino

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Re: Grit thoughts
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2019, 12:20:03 am »
I understand that the Tormek Japanese Waterstone’s 4,000 grit designation is based on the JIS (Japanese system) - am I right?
I don't know. Do you have a reason for your belief? It would be hard to imagine Tormek departing from its own established use of grit numbers (220 coarse and ~1000 fine).

But I have no idea.

I can't imagine a 10 000 grit doing anything other than a polish.
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Offline johnmcg

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Re: Grit thoughts
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2019, 01:06:49 am »
Herman: I asked a rep once and, although he wasn't positive, he thought it was JIS. I don't think Tormek would introduce their own rating for grits when there are so many already (JIS, FEPA P, FEPA F, AINSI, etc.). Just curious I guess - the Japanese systems tends to be smaller numbers for the same grit size e.g. J2000 = P2500.

Offline Georgie

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Re: Grit thoughts
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2019, 05:30:01 pm »
I’m in a state of constant amazement when I read this forum, so many topics already covered and discussed so thoroughly or explained so well.

The discussion begs the question (at least in my mind) where the use of an inexpensive diamond plate and plane has been used to smooth and recondition the Japanese wheel surface could not a similar set up be used in place of the grader but with different grit diamond plate (e.g. 600) to achieve different surfaces on the standard Tormek wheel?

George

Offline Ken S

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Re: Grit thoughts
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 08:08:41 pm »
This conversation reinforces my belief that an increasing group of Tormek users have become increasingly sophisticated and demanding. This is demonstrated by you tubes by members such as Wootz and Sharpco. I see this as a very positive development. This group, far from abandoning the Tormek, is using the Tormek to produce increasingly sharper and longer lasting edges. This is happening with a combination of more disciplined technique and increasingly sophisticated tools and materials. (This broad group includes new grinding wheels; more precise set up charts and applets; and more precise set up tools from the kenjig to the Front Vertical Base.)

I am convinced that this forum has been instrumental in the development of many things, from placing built in magnets in the water troughs (Remember the early posts recommending taping or gluing magnets to the water trough.) to diamond wheels after some of us had been using CBN. I believe the recent improvement of the TT-50 resulted from posts recommending the use of electrical ties. The list goes on.

I believe the stone grader will soon be upgraded. Today's Tormek users do not remember the difference between the natural and manmade stones of decades ago. Today's users want to use the blackstone and the Japanese stone as well as the original SG. We also have become more demanding of trueness. We expect to be able to sharpen newer alloys.

Ionut posted using diamond cards to clean up his SJ several years ago. Wootz began the more recent movement of using inexpensive diamond plates as a substitute for the stone grader. This struck me as a most promising idea. I purchased twenty inexpensive 1000 grit diamond plates and gave them to forum members. My own observation was that the diamond plate produced a smoother surface than the stone grader.

My next experiment was gluing a set of three different grit DMT diamond file cards onto three flat pieces of aluminum, trying to equal or exceed the grit range of the stone grader while keeping the grinding wheel quite flat. So far, this has produced mixed results. The fine grit works well. The middle and coarse grits do not seem as effective. Neither the coarse diamond plate nor the coarse side of the stone grader seem near to being as effective as the truing tool. This is a work in progress. Rich Colvin has been having better results with a coarse diamond bench stone.

Experiments with leather honing wheels and other compounds have a history, also. Based on an idea by Ernie Conover, I acquired a second leather honing wheel to use with valve grinding compound. VGC is more effective that the Tormek PA-70 with coarser polishing and scratch reducing. It also removes surface rust and staining more effectively. The drawback is that it does not offer as smooth a finish.

The constraint to using any of the diamond compounds is how willing one is to purchase one or more extra leather honing wheels and more expensive compounds. For those willing to make the investment, the rewards are promising.One must factor in the kind of sharpening one does. I see two groups interested in making this kind of investment. The first group is dedicated (obsessive) amateurs like me who are more interested in sharpening than in many other expensive activities. The second group, typified by Wootz and Sharpco, are professionals who have developed a clientele willing to pay premium sharpening prices for premium sharpening. I do not see this kind of sharpening cost effective for sharpeners with overly cost conscious customers.

We have much of this iceberg to explore. The Tormek engineering team has produced many fine innovations over the years, and will continue to do so. The target market of any successful business must be its typical customers. Unfortunately, the typical Tormek customer does not have our advanced interests. The typical Tormek customer will benefit from our innovations, however, he will not explore.
This means we must continue to be innovative. This can be a satisfying duty. We have none it before and we are doing it now. I look forward to future innovations.

Ken