Author Topic: Frontal Vertical Base  (Read 12041 times)

Offline Ken S

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Frontal Vertical Base
« on: July 17, 2018, 10:02:48 pm »
The Frontal Vertical Base I purchased from Knife Grinders (our own Wootz) arrived yesterday. It is impressive. It is large enough to be solid and compact enough to store easily. The quality of the machining is quite good.


I only had a few minutes with it. I believe it will prove valuable in getting rid of any slop in using the leather honing wheel.

Class A product and service, Wootz!

Ken

Offline Grizz

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 11:33:11 pm »
you will love it, simply because "it works".

Offline SHARPCO

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 01:10:45 am »
Good job, Wootz!

Offline Hogdog6

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 06:46:31 am »
How do I obtain one of those? I’ve been to his site but didn’t see anything for sale.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 12:22:00 pm »
Hogdog6,

Here is a link to the FVB page:

http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm

The page is listed as "Edge testing equipment and accessories”. I find the sales technique refreshingly different: Provide the customer with useful information on using the product. If the customer decides the product suits his needs, he will purchase it.

One thing I found confusing was the drop down cost with shipping menu (at least with an ipad). The down arrow brought up Australia and New Zealand. There is a third listing for International, however, it requires scrolling down to see it. It initially fooled me. I was prepared to pay the price shown in Australian Dollars, and pleased to see the lower number in US Dollars.

For a unique, useful, well machined product made on a small scale, I think the price is very fair.

I approached the design from the opposite direction. I devised a way to have a horizontal base with the edge leading, just like using a dry grinder or a lathe. My idea works very well on paper. It also works in a dry grinding situation using CBN or the two smaller Tormek diamond wheels (primarily designed for the T2). The only difficulty was using it wet....it caused a flood.  :(     

The vertical honing position seems very logical, especially for Wootz' sharpening technique. He sharpens in a sitting position using the vertical edge leading direction. Sitting would offer a notable increase in comfort for long sessions or working in a van. It would also provide the consistency of the same tool position for honing as for sharpening. Wootz' very impressive BESS sharpness numbers provide "the proof in the pudding" (English idiom meaning the proof).

Wootz has very cleverly coordinated the FVB with his set up applet. The standardized position for the FVB is with the two legs pushed all the way into the horizontal sleeves until the FVB contacts the Tormek frame. No measuring required for that part of the set up and very consistent. I am impressed.

Ken


Offline RickKrung

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 05:05:37 pm »
...snip...
I approached the design from the opposite direction. I devised a way to have a horizontal base with the edge leading, just like using a dry grinder or a lathe. My idea works very well on paper. It also works in a dry grinding situation using CBN or the two smaller Tormek diamond wheels (primarily designed for the T2). The only difficulty was using it wet....it caused a flood.  :(     

I am curious to find out just what you mean here "horizontal base with edge leading".  I am having trouble picturing it in my mind.  This suggests to me that you are running the Tormek in the opposite direction, but you post doesn't really suggest that.  Please elaborate. 

I am also curious how your procedure differs that it causes a flood. 

The vertical honing position seems very logical, especially for Wootz' sharpening technique. He sharpens in a sitting position using the vertical edge leading direction. Sitting would offer a notable increase in comfort for long sessions or working in a van. It would also provide the consistency of the same tool position for honing as for sharpening. Wootz' very impressive BESS sharpness numbers provide "the proof in the pudding" (English idiom meaning the proof).
...snip...

Ken

I sharpen on my T8 using the vertical USB and edge leading, from a sitting position.  I have mild neuropathy in my legs and so cannot stand for long periods without lasting pain.  I do a lot of things sitting when I can.  This is part of the reason I don't want to do machining things for hire. 

The sitting position I use is from the opposite side of the T8, so it is sort of in that "frontal" position.  I do have to reach over the T8 and at first, I had some trouble keeping the jig firmly on the USB, but now that I have developed the muscle memory, it isn't a problem anymore. 

I built a frontal vertical base earlier when it was discussed on the forum.  I look forward to using it and learning using the knife jigs with edge trailing.  I tried it a little with one knife and was impressed with the size of the burr.  Makes me wonder if by using the vertical position, more metal is removed than necessary getting to where the burr is detectable. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 04:53:01 pm »
Rick,

I purchased an extended support bar from forum member, Robin Bailey, of the UK. I have found it a useful tool. The bar is longer than the standard Tormek US-105, and the two legs are longer. I have not sharpened knives longer that eight inches (200mm), I can't comment on the longer length. I bought it to sharpen my Chinese cleaver. It was a wedding present from my best friend; keeping it well sharpened is important to me. The only Tormek method is freehand. Robin's extended support sharpens my cleaver.

The legs are long enough to insert it in the horizontal sleeves from the other dide of the Tormek. I wanted to duplicate the dry grinder position. It does this well, except that the lower position forces the water out of the trough. Although it does work with CBN and the smaller Tormek T2 diamond wheels used dry, I consider this as one of my several idea which doesn't work. I finally realized thatTormek has not lengthed the legs to keep them from positioning the support bar cutting into the edge with the leather honing wheel, a wise precaution. Do not try this at home!!!

Rick and I are the same vintage. I think I will probably be be doing more sharpening while sitting in the near future.

Ken

Offline Erivan

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2019, 05:30:39 pm »
Maybe I'am late...  Sorry.

Does anybody have news from the VFB supplier. It seems most interesting to me.

Rgds.

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 10:05:58 pm »
Maybe I'am late...  Sorry.

Does anybody have news from the VFB supplier. It seems most interesting to me.

Rgds.

It is available from Knife Grinders as listed at the top of this thread.

I obtained one a short time ago and my sharpness and consistently took a jump ahead.
Sharpen the knife blade
Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

Offline Antz

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 11:02:42 pm »
I believe on the knife grinders website you can purchase a stripped down version of the FVB and attach your own separately purchased XB100. I guess they are waiting on parts from tormek but the stripped down version is available upon request. Correct me if I’m wrong.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 08:16:50 am by Antz »
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Offline Erivan

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2019, 03:00:53 am »
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

Offline wootz

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2019, 03:36:43 am »
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

A couple of hundreds use our FVB with their Tormeks, all models, around the world.
Yet we encourage everyone to make the Frontal Vertical Base themselves, we can program Windows and MacBook/MacAir software for your home-made FVB, how to order the applet is on our website.

Our current FVB base is 25 mm thick, 50 x 107 mm; the legs are 190-200 mm.

Our historically first prototype was of wood; for Tormek T-7 we used to make it of the BGM-100 kit - for details see the thread
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=2583

More examples of home-made FVB: http://knifegrinders.com.au/FVB_self-made.htm
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 11:08:52 pm by wootz »

Offline Josu V

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2019, 05:16:41 pm »
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

Hi Erivan.
I´m going to tell you my own experience.

I use Tormek T8 about six months ago. At first I used it without FVB. Everything has to be said; with very good results.
But I´m very perfectionist, and I want to raise my level of sharpening.
After weeks and week of research, I found Woottz´s research. I understood that the "secret" of a good sharpening was in the removal of burrs (of course, in the technique of sharpening).
I bought a FVB from Wootz through its website. I also read his book and applied his deburring techniques.

Today, my sharpenings are better using the FVB. I have three leather wheels an always applied his Differential deburr technic.
I just sharpening my Yanagiba knife of Kai Shun and after sharpening I cut one smoking paper of Rizzla + without problems. This is a good sharpening for a 16 DPS sharpening.

I think that the price is absolutely lower than the results.

I hope I have helped
Abusus non tollit usum

Offline Luke

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2019, 01:26:31 am »
Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.
Hi Erivan,
I purchased the FVB from Wootz a few months back and have to say its made the whole process so much easier . The angle setting software alone would have been worth the money as its so easy and accurate to use but add in the ability to totally remove the burr and I've gone from a nice sharp knife to a knife I can shave with that retains its sharpness . No squashing tomatoes anymore
 I am an ordinary guy living in the UK with aspirations to maybe make a small business venture out of sharpening some day . In my opinion its worth every penny  :)

Offline Ken S

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Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2019, 03:23:48 am »
Add me to the list of satisfied VFB purchasers. I may look at the cost somewhat differently. Wootz has generously shared details for those interested in building their own VFB. I see the cost of the VFB as a fair price for a well designed and manufactured product. Hopefully the price includes a reasonable business profit. If this happens to support the excellent research Wootz is doing, I am pleased to contribute.

Ken