Author Topic: Frontal Vertical Base  (Read 13995 times)

Offline Al

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2019, 08:34:01 pm »
Here here. Ditto from me Ken.
It’s an absolute must and I’m always happy to support Wootz.
Sub 50’s on the Bess would never have been possible for me without these aids and Wootz generosity in sharing his knowledge

Offline Antz

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Diamond Edge Sharpening Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2019, 09:21:29 pm »
I also agree. The value in the FVB is also in the knowledge that Wootz shares for free. I would still be sharpening everything by hand in the “Stone Age” if it wasn’t for the info he shares. A lot of people like to keep “trade secrets” but Wootz gave us the keys to successful sharpening. To me the price is worth the results. I would suggest save a little and get it when you can. That’s what I’m doing. I purchased software and paper wheel support from Wootz and now saving up for the fvb.

Antz
“But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:57‬ ‭

Offline Erivan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2019, 10:24:46 pm »
Hello there,
Thanks for all the comments.
It was great to read from you all.
As already mentioned, living in the EU doesn't make any good to importing goods from AU. Now let's step a bit forward.
Thanks to all the good advice I got from our mate at (no need to mention any name I guess :) ) http://knifegrinders.com.au I went to a local store (very local - 300 meters away from where I was born)  and asked if they could help.
The shop owner really seems to be a sympathetic guy and might agree to try and build an "EU made" VFB specially for myself.  I'm waiting for his answer...
 Cheers !

Offline Erivan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2019, 11:08:41 pm »
Hi Josu,

Thanks a lot for your comment, which adds to my (little) knowledge.

Would you please elaborate a bit more about your 3 leather wheels?

What are they for ? different size ? different honing compound ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Rgds

Well, thanks to all for your info and comments.
I'm  ::) (un)fortunately living in the EU, and the total cost of the jig/postage/tariff/bank transfer charge and so on made me think twice.
Not happy at all with that, but as a newbie, I couldn't  really appreciate how this device would make my sharpening experience with respect to the total price tag.
Your comments are most welcome.

Hi Erivan.
I´m going to tell you my own experience.

I use Tormek T8 about six months ago. At first I used it without FVB. Everything has to be said; with very good results.
But I´m very perfectionist, and I want to raise my level of sharpening.
After weeks and week of research, I found Woottz´s research. I understood that the "secret" of a good sharpening was in the removal of burrs (of course, in the technique of sharpening).
I bought a FVB from Wootz through its website. I also read his book and applied his deburring techniques.

Today, my sharpenings are better using the FVB. I have three leather wheels an always applied his Differential deburr technic.
I just sharpening my Yanagiba knife of Kai Shun and after sharpening I cut one smoking paper of Rizzla + without problems. This is a good sharpening for a 16 DPS sharpening.

I think that the price is absolutely lower than the results.

I hope I have helped

Offline Josu V

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2019, 10:27:15 am »
Hi Josu,

Thanks a lot for your comment, which adds to my (little) knowledge.

Would you please elaborate a bit more about your 3 leather wheels?

What are they for ? different size ? different honing compound ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Rgds



Of course.
Following Wootz's explains, and bought two more leather wheels, and actually have three.
One with Tormek Honing Compound PA-70.
Other One with Diamond Compound 1 Micron
And other with one layer of Chromium Oxide, and a second layer with Diamond Compound 0.25 Micron.
Both of them are Tormek LA-220 Leather Honing Wheel.

First I proceed to sharpening the knife with one of the grinding wheels that I have. Depending on the quality and / or the kind of steel, I use from SG-250 to the Tormek Diamond wheels DF-250 and DE-250.

Then I use the first leather Wheel with Tormek honing compound in the same angle that the sharpening. I use the FVB and the APP for this.
Then, I use the second leather wheel with 1 Micron diamond compound and set the angle between 0.1 to 2 degrees more, depending on the kind of steel.
Two slow and soft passes.
Then, I use the last honing wheel one more pass in the same angle as the second.
And finally,  I set the initial angle again and one more pass very slowly and very softly.

Is important to clean the knife between different leather wheels in order to prevent cross contamination between different honing compounds.

I´m note sure if this procedure is exactly the best but the results are fantastics.
Probably, Mr. Wootz will be able to correct something to me, but that is the procedure that I have understood after reading a lot of what he has written and after reading his book.
Please note that the English language has some difficulties for me and I may not have understood everything correctly.

Regards
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 09:03:37 pm by Josu V »
Abusus non tollit usum

Offline wootz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
    • View Profile
    • knifeGrinders.com.au
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2019, 11:26:29 am »

Following Wootz's explains, and bought two more leather wheels, and actually have three. Both
One with Tormek Honing Compound PA-70.
Other One with Diamond Compound 1 Micron
And other with one layer of Chromium Oxide, and a second layer with Diamond Compound 0.25 Micron.
Both of them are Tormek LA-220 Leather Honing Wheel.

First I proceed to sharpening the knife with one of the grinding wheels that I have. Depending on the quality and / or the kind of steel, I use from SG-250 to the Tormek Diamond wheels DF-250 and DE-250.

Then I use the first leather Wheel with Tormek honing compound in the same angle that the sharpening. I use the FVB and the APP for this.
Then, I use the second leather wheel with 0.1 Micron diamond compound and set the angle between 0.1 to 2 degrees more, depending on the kind of steel.
Two small and soft passes.
Then, I use the last honing wheel one more pass in the same angle as the second.
And finally,  I set the initial angle again and one more pass very slowly and very softly.

Is important to clean the knife between different leather wheels in order to prevent cross contamination between different honing compounds.

I´m note sure if this procedure is exactly the best but the results are fantastics.
Probably, Mr. Wootz will be able to correct something to me, but that is the procedure that I have understood after reading a lot of what he has written and after reading his book.
Please note that the English language is has some difficulties for me and I may not have understood everything correctly.

Regards

Perfect. Thank you for sharing, Josu

Offline Drilon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Always learning!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2019, 06:52:13 pm »
Hello Josu, a very clear and useful description of working with three leather wheels as suggested by our genius wootz.

Just to avoid a confusion: In the list of the three compound used you correctly list diamond compound 1 micron. Later in the text you write 0.1 micron for the compound for the second leather wheel.

I also like this sharpening method with the three leather wheels!

Regards
Drilon


 

Offline Josu V

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2019, 09:06:08 pm »
Hello Josu, a very clear and useful description of working with three leather wheels as suggested by our genius wootz.

Just to avoid a confusion: In the list of the three compound used you correctly list diamond compound 1 micron. Later in the text you write 0.1 micron for the compound for the second leather wheel.

I also like this sharpening method with the three leather wheels!

Regards
Drilon

Sorry.  It has been a mistake.
Corrected!  Thanks for the advice  :)
Abusus non tollit usum

Offline Nik3

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2019, 11:20:38 pm »
Hello fellow tormeker

Im wondering on how can I tell if I have deburred the bevel ?
I don't have edgeonup. So can't get help From it.
Is it just to test one angle first and if not working then try an even greater angle?
Is there any "easier" way to know at what angle to deburr it other then trial and error?

Best regards

Offline wootz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
    • View Profile
    • knifeGrinders.com.au
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2019, 02:35:42 am »
Hello fellow tormeker

Im wondering on how can I tell if I have deburred the bevel ?
I don't have edgeonup. So can't get help From it.
Is it just to test one angle first and if not working then try an even greater angle?
Is there any "easier" way to know at what angle to deburr it other then trial and error?

Best regards

While it is not easy to detect wire edge in hard alloy high-end knives without special equipment, it is relatively simple in mainstream knives.
Please see this thread:
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3954

Offline Nik3

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2019, 09:41:22 am »
Thank you wootz, great reading like normally.

So I should start with a low deburring angle (0.5°?) And then test with the flourocarbon.
What jumps do you recommend to take between each increase?
And if it goes to high and round the Apex then it will just not cut as easily anymore?

Offline wootz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
    • View Profile
    • knifeGrinders.com.au
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2019, 04:24:09 pm »
We've done all that hard work to make it simple for you.

The Differential Honing is minimum 2-step, but better 3-step.

First hone away the bulk of the burr at the edge angle so that on the apex you have a feather burr or wire edge.
The edge set on #1000 is deburred with 3-6 micron honing compound like Tormek honing paste. But the edge apexed on a coarser wheel requires a coarser honing compound of 6-10 micron, like Autosol or Green Rouge etc.

Then de-root the burr at a higher angle with 1-micron diamonds; the majority of knife steels are done this way:
  - Stainless steel mainstream knives HRC <= 55 at + 2 degree higher;
  - Stainless steel quality knives HRC 56-58 at + 1.6 degree higher;
  - Premium kitchen knives at + 0.4 to 0.8 degree higher
  - Tool and wear-resitant steels at + 0.4 degree higher;
  - Steels listed in our book as prone to "negative burr" - at the edge angle.

Finishing cleanup:
Quality knife steels we do with 0.5/0.25-micron diamonds and chromium oxide;
Lower-end steels on a plain hanging leather strop w/o any honing compound.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 04:38:55 pm by wootz »

Offline Gary@QSS

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2019, 08:51:23 pm »
Hello fellow sharpeners,
First I want to introduce myself as I am new to the forum. I’m Gary and USA based, residing in the Dallas TX area. I have lurked and read for some time now being ever appreciative of the knowledge I’ve gained here. This is a great site, and I’m thankful to be a member.

I have purchased the FVB from the folks at Knife Grinders (fine piece of high-quality equipment!) and set it up carefully following the accompanying instructions. I’ve triple checked everything and am confident it is set up properly. I have also downloaded the applet for calculating the settings.

The issue I want to ask about is the fact that there is a consistent 4 degrees difference in the angle as set using the FVB applet and the angle as read from the Tormek Angle Master. Said another way, I set up using the applet [T-8, 140 mm to blade edge, 18 degree angle, 97.64 mm support height], but then when I check the blade angle with the Angle Master it says 22 degrees.

I’m not sure if this is normal accuracy or not. I suspect the Angle Master is probably +/- one degree at best, not sure what accuracy is on the FVB. What should I do if I want to sharpen at 18 degrees, trust the FVB or split the difference? I don’t have a laser protractor for verification.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for having me to this forum!

Gary
Gary

Offline Antz

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Diamond Edge Sharpening Hawaii
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2019, 12:30:04 am »
Welcome to the Forum Gary,

If you are 100% certain you have set up the FVB correctly and input the correct information into the applet (blade protrusion, grinding wheel diameter), then I would trust the applet. Watching Wootz YouTube videos he checks his bevels with a laser protractor and I’ve never seen him be off by even 1 degree. I also use the applets and although I don’t have a laser protractor I believe it to be spot on.
 Another thing with the angle master is it’s not easy to set an exact wheel diameter setting when adjusting for wheel ware. The applet is more precise.

Antz
“But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:57‬ ‭

Offline Tesla

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Frontal Vertical Base
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2019, 02:52:58 am »
-
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 01:21:32 am by Tesla »