Author Topic: Multiple Wheels vs Multiple Tormeks, Context - Volume Sharpening  (Read 1137 times)

Offline RickKrung

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I am porting this from the thread about a you tube video showing use of the small knife jig with woodcarving tools. 
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3654.0#lastPost

But, with my post below, I feel the context may become diverted and do not want to hijack that thread.

I was a bit underwhelmed when he didn't correct the misalignment of the knife in the small knife jig.  I've only used mine a time or two and found the need to work the handle in the jig a bit to get the blade better aligned.  Interesting trick to back the stop a turn or two to change the angle to get the bevel widths the same.  He did not speak to how well centered the apex was after that, however. 

I was surprised to see him use the fine side of the stone grader to clean the SJ wheel.  I'm trying to remember if that is a recommended practice or if anyone does that.  I'd think it a bit coarse and would, over time, take off enough material to change the wheel diameter.  I have wondered a bit about the Nagura stone that I use and how it cleans the black stuff without take much if any of the stone away. 

I've been struggling, in my head, about the use of multiple Tormeks versus changing wheels.  I use only two wheels at the moment, the SB and SJ.  I change wheels on my single Tormek.  Soon (I hope) I will have three wheels (diamond) which will also need changing on a single Tormek.  I assume I will still use the SJ wheel after the diamond wheels, and while two diamond wheels may do it for some blades, I am sure there will be some that need more significant work and will require the use of the coarse diamond wheel (360), which could mean up to four wheel changes for a single blade.  Suddenly, a second Tormek is becoming more attractive.  I've also recently acquired a buffing machine and a paper wheel, so that would very likely change the mix at the finishing stage. 

I've only ever used a sharpening service once, at a local pub and supermarket, but I don't recall that he used but one wheel and then the leather honing wheel.  Since getting a Tormek and following discussions about setting the USB height for different angled, I seem to recall the guy did not change the USB for different knives, meaning he would have changed the bevel angles on some knives. But that raises the question in my mind how he could do that so easily using only one wheel and not seeming to take a long time on any knife. 

At home, I work at my own pace, so wheel changes are not much of an issue.  However, my daughter manages a small farmer's market in the nearest "big" city, Baker City, OR. which, at 9720 pop., is by no means big. They have only about six tables (vendors) and appear to be struggling.  I was asked a couple months ago, before the marked opened, by my daughter if I wanted to set up a sharpening booth.  At the time, it was an emphatic "NO".  I am reconsidering that now, and that raises the issue of wheel changes in a different way: cycle time.

I think this could warrant it's own thread, so as to not bury it here or high-jack this thread, so I will start a new thread using my post here. 

Rick

One question is, is there a break point between using multiple wheels, involving time consuming wheel changes, on a single Tormek versus using multiple Tormeks, eliminating or reducing wheel changes when doing volume sharpening, for example at a Farmer's Market or similar venue? 

Rick
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 12:08:56 am by RickKrung »
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline cbwx34

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Re: Multiple Wheels vs Multiple Tormeks, Context - Volume Sharpening
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 05:50:21 pm »
I am porting this from the thread about a you tube video showing use of the small knife jig with woodcarving tools. 
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3654.0#lastPost

But, with my post below, I feel the context my become diverted and do not want to hijack that thread.

...
I've been struggling, in my head, about the use of multiple Tormeks versus changing wheels.  I use only two wheels at the moment, the SB and SJ.  I change wheels on my single Tormek.  Soon (I hope) I will have three wheels (diamond) which will also need changing on a single Tormek.  I assume I will still use the SJ wheel after the diamond wheels, and while two diamond wheels may do it for some blades, I am sure there will be some that need more significant work and will require the use of the coarse diamond wheel (360), which could mean up to four wheel changes for a single blade.  Suddenly, a second Tormek is becoming more attractive.  I've also recently acquired a buffing machine and a paper wheel, so that would very likely change the mix at the finishing stage. 

I've only ever used a sharpening service once, at a local pub and supermarket, but I don't recall that he used but one wheel and then the leather honing wheel.  Since getting a Tormek and following discussions about setting the USB height for different angles, I seem to recall the guy did not change the USB for different knives, meaning he would have changes the bevel angles on some knives. But that raises the question in my mind he could do that so easily using only one wheel and not seeming to take a long time on any knife. 

At home, I work at my own pace, so wheel changes are not much of an issue.  However, my daughter manages a small farmer's market in the nearest "big" city, Baker City, OR. which, at 9720 pop., is by no means big. They have only about six tables (vendors) and appear to be struggling.  I was asked a couple months ago, before the marked opened, by my daughter if I wanted to set up a sharpening booth.  At the time, it was an emphatic "NO".  I am reconsidering that now, and that raises the issue of wheel changes in a different way: cycle time.

I think this could warrant it's own thread, so as to not bury it here or high-jack this thread, so I will start a new thread using my post here. 

Rick

One question is, is there a break point between using multiple wheels, involving time consuming wheel changes, on a single Tormek versus using multiple Tormeks, eliminating or reducing wheel changes when doing volume sharpening, for example at a Farmer's Market or similar venue? 

Rick

I can't say what the guy at the supermarket you used did... but in general, most of the "volume" sharpeners seem to pick one angle and use it on most knives.  SteveB is an example... a "pregrind" on the Tormek at one setting (usually freehand), then used the paper wheel at a second setting... and generally stayed at the same angle.  The Kenjig is another example.... set a specific angle and make minor Projection Distance adjustments which kept the angle (I think) at 15°.

Those that don't do any type of thinning... usually pick a higher angle to get the sharpening done in a timely manner.

I don't sharpen at volume, but for the most part, if I go sharpen a set of knives at a friends house or something, I'll usually stick to one stone... usually the SG "ungraded" so it's between the 220-1000 range... then debur.  You'll end up with an edge that I can almost guarantee is "sharper than new".  If I did a Farmer's Market... I would strive to never change the stone... and would first consider a belt sander for the repairs you wil inevitably have to make.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Multiple Wheels vs Multiple Tormeks, Context - Volume Sharpening
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2018, 09:56:09 pm »
Good reply, CB.

Since Rick has a set of diamond wheels on order, I would give serious thought to him just using the DF-250, the fine 600 grit wheel That is the grit which Tormek supplies with the T2, restaurant specialty model. Since he will already have it, it offers no need to true or grade the wheel. I have found that diamond cuts well from start to finish with no glazing.

I like the idea of bringing a Viel or Kalamazoo 1SM belt grinder for knife repairs. They make quick, efficient work of hollow spots in the blade curve or bolsters which need to be trimmed. With a fine Scotch Brite belt, they quickly clean up gnarly surfaces, which can be a public relations bonus.

Ken