Author Topic: Belt grinder for use with Tormek  (Read 2865 times)

Offline RickKrung

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Viel Front Side Up or Down?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2019, 05:02:36 pm »
I tried a "mock up" of placing the Viel belt sander on its face, with the back side of the belt facing upward and with the sander turned around and turned with back side down and the front side of the belt facing upward. 

In the first case, with the sander just tilted forward, putting the face down, puts the passive pulley very close to the table surface.  Too close in my estimation.  It does put the belt running away for edge trailing and does not require a reversing switch.


In the second case, with the sander turned around and the front side facing upward elevates the passive pulley, keeping it far away from the table.  It does make the working plane higher, which could be awkward, at least for me as I sit while working rather than standing.  It does require installing a reversing switch.


I also tried putting a piece of 2x4 wood under the base of the frame, elevating it but also lowering/angling the passive pulley/belt.  I like this much better and will likely implement it in this manner when I have time.  I will do it in a way to make sure the passive pulley has good clearance from the table.  And the unit will be firmly bolted down so it doesn't topple over move.
 

Rick

« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 05:12:20 pm by RickKrung »
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Offline RickKrung

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2019, 06:10:35 pm »
It was pointed out, off-list, that the stock Viel motor is reversible.  The nameplate even says how to do it, just reverse two leads.  Good to know if one is not interested in the variable speed mod. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Jan

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 09:32:24 pm »
Rick, thanks for your detailed explanations!

I do not have a belt sander like Viel, but as an occasional knife maker, I would like to have one for convex grinding. That is the reason I am reading your posts carefully.

Currently I use my 3" hand belt sander, clamped upside down on a wooden plate. Sleeves for the USB are drilled into massive beech wood prisms.

Jan
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 09:35:57 pm by Jan »

Offline Ken S

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 02:22:42 am »
Jan,

I remember your belt sander from early posts when you were restoring your grandfather's mortise chisel. It was a well done labor of love and those warm feelings were obvious.

I believe a creative craftsman has his choice among many tools. In my case, the first belt sander I used was my grandfather's 1930s vintage Sears Companion 3x36” sander. I used it incorrectly and destroyed a new belt. (I could use it more successfully today.)

As much as I like the versatility of my Viel, an imaginative worker like Jan will do good work with a variety of tools. In my opinion, one of the common traits of the Tormek and belt grinders is their versatility.

Ken

Offline Jan

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2019, 10:06:30 am »
Yes Ken, you are correct. It is almost five years ago when I made this set up. It works fine for massive steel removal and because there is a full spectrum of grits available (24 to 320) you can easily remove scratches from any previous grinding step. It is restricted to flat grinding (Scandi grind) because the platen is almost beneath the whole belt.

Jan

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2019, 09:24:48 pm »
Still pursuing getting the Viel set up for use with the Tormek knife jigs.  I have developed a jig for setting the USB at four angles that I use most commonly, 12, 14, 16, and 18º.  The Images below show the jig with the USB at two angles, 12 and 14º.  The photo below was posted before but is included here for illustration of the sander setup.

The drawings show the Viel platen in a vertical position, with the sander in a typical upright orientation.  There is a conflict with the frame where the jig cannot be set to less than 14º in this position.  Therefore, I am assuming to have the Viel sander on its back with the front side facing upward, but at an angle as show in the photo below. 

The jig has four USB angle positions.  In order to make getting the jig in and out between the USB and belt, without abrading the surface that contacts the belt, I put a 5º relief angle on the vertical face that goes between the USB and the belt/platen.  I've not made one yet to test.  I'm on the road for about a week, so I'll get on making a jig when I get home. 

Rick
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 04:55:17 am by RickKrung »
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Jan

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2019, 08:53:29 pm »
Rick, the figures in the drawing of your angle jig are for a projection length of 139 mm?

Jan

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 03:48:48 am »
Rick, the figures in the drawing of your angle jig are for a projection length of 139 mm?

Jan

Jan,

Yes, thank you for that question.  I apologize for not mentioning that in my post.  Yes, I use 139mm as my standard projection, unless the tool/blade requires something different. A longer projection might alleviate some of the conflicts between the jig and the Viel frame, but I don't want to work that way. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Jan

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 09:24:18 am »
Thanks for your explanation, Rick. The kenjig projection length 139 mm is a magic number of this forum. My next observation was, that the protrusions of your jig are not exactly square. Are the horizontal drawing dimensions measured from a contact point of the USB and jig protrusion?

Jan

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2019, 05:02:58 pm »
Thanks for your explanation, Rick. The kenjig projection length 139 mm is a magic number of this forum. My next observation was, that the protrusions of your jig are not exactly square. Are the horizontal drawing dimensions measured from a contact point of the USB and jig protrusion?

Jan

Jan,

I am not clear on what you are asking.  I have added some details to the figure to see if I can clarify. 

USB positioned at 12º.


Yes, the jig surfaces that set the distance of the USB from the belt/platen are not square.  I put in a relief so the jig can be inserted and removed without being trapped between the USB and the belt.  It is important to have the USB in contact with the top surface of each position and the angled surface that sets the "protrusion" from the platen. 


Dimensions of just the 12º setting.  The vertical distance (the 0.400" dimension in the figure) is not critical but the distance from the belt/platen to the apex/intersection (0.412) of those two surfaces is critical.  With the relief angle, it is a difficult machining operation that I have not yet figured out how I am going to do it.  I am confident that I'll figure it out, but I have to get in the shop to do that. 


This diagram shows the dimensions for each angle step.  As mentioned, these are the only critical dimensions.


The dimension at the apex of the two surfaces differs from the dimension where the USB contacts the vertical surface.  The protrusion distance that establishes the specific angles is determined by the apex distance (0.412") from the belt/platen, NOT the dimension from the point of contact of the USB (0.392") with that vertical surface. 


I hope this clarifies/answers your question. 

Rick
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 06:46:43 am by RickKrung »
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Jan

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2019, 10:16:28 pm »
Rick, thanks for your detailed explanation. It is fully clarified now.  :)
I was looking for the dimension 0.392" (my calculation is almost the same 0.390").

Jan

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2019, 07:11:53 am »
I have just posted my latest design (Tormek Knife Jigs on Tilted Viel Sander) for using the Tormkek knife jigs on a Viel 1x42 belt sander.  I have not actually built this yet and so have not actually tried it to see if it really works as designed.  I have not tried any other jigs, either in CAD or for real, but I am hopeful it will work for most jigs. 

Please go to the link (embedded in the text above) and continue any discussion there.  That way, we can keep it together. 

I also want to figure out a good setup for using the Viel in its nominal upright/forward position.  This will require removing some of the top/front corner of the frame.  I think there will be plenty of "slot" left for using any Viel jigs that I might get.  I am thinking some of the more traditional uses, both for metal and wood, may work better in this orientation. 

The template that I designed above would need to be used, if I end up keeping the sander in the nominal position.  Or some other redesigned template, based on the effect of removing that corner. 

Rick
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 04:26:40 pm by RickKrung »
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Belt grinder for use with Tormek
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2019, 06:19:29 am »
...snip...
I also want to figure out a good setup for using the Viel in its nominal upright/forward position.  This will require removing some of the top/front corner of the frame.  I think there will be plenty of "slot" left for using any Viel jigs that I might get.  I am thinking some of the more traditional uses, both for metal and wood, may work better in this orientation. 
...snip...

I did go forward with setting the Viel up in its normal upright/forward position.  Discussion and images posted in that "other" thread

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.