Author Topic: SVS-50 advice please  (Read 2040 times)

Offline jwl940

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SVS-50 advice please
« on: September 24, 2018, 06:42:19 pm »
Hallo all

I am a long time user of a Supergrind 2000 for sharpening turning gouges with a lot of repeatable success, can’t think of a better / safer way of sharpening.  Having very recently been introduced to carving I picked up a handful of well loved carving gouges at a car boot just to practice sharpening those before attempting the same on new expensive ones.  Using the SVS-38 I immediately succeeded in bring the various curved gouges back to life,  it couldn’t have been easier.  Using the SVS-50 and its closed seat a half inch single bevel straight gouge was reprofiled to a 70 degree skew double bevel, once again a very simple process taking all of 30 minutes.  However, there’s always a however.  Given the length (or lack of) the gouge (it had been well used over many decades) I was only able to get a 40 degree bevel on it where I was looking for something nearer 20 degrees.  Either I have discovered a limitation with the jig or my technique is flaky so the exam question is simply which, the jig or me?

Having successfully profiled (almost) that straight gouge into a skew I next tried to tackle a 3/8 inch straight gouge but immediately found the closed seat wouldn’t grip the blade, it was too narrow for the side screw to reach.  I understand this jig has been updated and rereleased so this exam question is, 'will the latest SVS-50 Closed Seat housing grip a 3/8th inch wide blade.

Hope all this makes sense, grateful for any advice.

John

Offline RichColvin

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2018, 11:12:01 pm »
John,

Some pictures would certainly help, but my experience with short tools (e.g., veining tools) was that the standard jigs would not work.  I’ve used a collar for those.  You can see pictures on my www.SharpeningHandbook.info site.

Kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
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You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline RichColvin

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2018, 11:16:47 pm »
John,

Also, the new chisel jigs (SE-76 and SE-77) are significantly improved over the older SVH-60 jig.  I use the SE-77 on my small carving chisels, including the skewed ones.

That may also be a better solution for you than trying to use the SVS-50 Multi-Jig.

Kind regards,
Rich
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 11:18:43 pm by RichColvin »
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline jwl940

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 11:47:40 pm »
Thanks for the replies Rich, that’s certainly an impressive web site.  I’m away from my shed for the rest of the week so can’t get any photos of what I’m trying to achieve but if you look at a pfeil 1s that is what I’m attempting to get albeit with a 70degree angle.  Would the SE-77 do that bearing in mind the 1s is double bevelled and skewed or will the re-released svs-50 grip down to 3/8 inch - 9.5mm?  Already I am thinking of a 70/20 degree insert to ensure the chisel is held at a repeatable angle in the SE-77 blade clamp or am I over thinking this?  I’m certainly going to have to look at the SE-77 next time I’m passing my w/w store which will be weeks away unfortunately but thanks for bringing it to my attention. 

Offline RichColvin

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 02:35:15 am »
Richard,

I looked up the Pfeil 1s, and it seems similar to my small skew carving chisel (I am a Two Cherries fan).  As shown below, it is about 11mm wide across the end.


The next picture shows this chisel mounted askew in the SE-77 jig.


The next picture doesn't show it well, but I've sharpened both sides equally.  In this picture, I've positioned the USB about as close as I can get it to the stone, and was able to measure a bevel angle around 18°, which would result in an included angle around 35-36°.

One option would be to have two skews, and sharpen each skew on only one side (one for left sides; the other for right).  Then the bevel angle would equal the included angle (like on a bench chisel).


The projection I used for this is shown below.  (I showed it in mm and inches.)


What would be interesting to see is how the included angle might be reduced by using the MB-100 multi-base and grinding on the side of the stone.  I don't have one of those, but someone (like maybe, Ken) could try this!

Hope that helps.

Good luck, and kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline jwl940

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 07:23:57 am »
Fantastic Rich, that answers all the questions.  Those photos remove all doubt so the SE-77 it is.  I am VERY new to carving, still to find my own feet and am trying to replicate what my instructor used and advised.  Unfortunately sharpening didn’t feature in the short syllabus.  Your photos have also shown me I’ve a little more thinking to do about 'included' angles.   This is going to be a very long week stuck in a hotel until I can get home to my shed.  Again many thanks for your help.

Offline Ken S

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 12:36:33 pm »
John,

Welcome to the forum. I am in a similar situation to yours. In my case, I have been sharpening woodworking bench chisels for many years, but am very new at woodturning. Comparing carving and turning, each has benefits and constraints. The edge of a turning tool roughing a single billet from square to round probably meets more wood than a carving tool will in many decades. Carving tools are made of carbon steel to have a very keen edge under light duty. Turning tools are generally high speed steel for edge durability, albeit at a slight diminishing in keenness.

On the other hand, turning tools are generally larger, which fits "handbook sharpening" more easily with the Tormek. Fortunately, the Tormek is versatile enough that the handbook is the starting point, not the end point. Here is an example:

I inherited most of my turning tools from my grandfather. They are 1930s vintage carbon steel. I also have several odd newer hss tools, including a one inch wide straight skew. Eventually I want to purchase an Alan Lacer skew, a large skew with a combination straight (90°) edge about a third of the way across and the rest of the edge radiused. This combined grind is not mentioned in the handbook. I reshaped the skew by placing the support bar very close to the grinding wheel and using it to support the skew being presented to the grinding wheel at a right angle. I ground the bevels using the Torlock platform jig in the reverse orientation, also very workable but not handbook. The bevels were good enough to impress Rob, our resident UK advanced turner.

My point with this is that we are not limited to handbook techniques. The Tormek is capable of a lot more with skill hands and imagination. Rich's use of the SE-77 is clever. I assume you already have the original SVH-60 square edge jig. It may also fulfill your needs. I will verify this later today. I believe you can set the jig for the bevel angle you want. If you remove the clamp parts and scribe 70° lines on the top with a black marker, you will have guiding marks. Work slowly and carefully; you have a very small amount of steel to remove. Grade your wheel fine.

I'll post again after I have a chance to try this.

I am glad you are posting; beginning turners like me can use "old turning hand" guidance.

Ken

Offline jwl940

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 01:37:26 pm »
Hi Ken, thanks for your welcome and your duties as moderator, I’m really bowled over by the amount of help I’ve received within 2 days of joining.  I had 6 hours of carving tuition while cruising up the Norwegian coast a few weeks ago and it has really whetted my appetite for more hence dusting off the 2000 and purchasing some 'sacrificial gouges' from a car boot to butcher.  What a good investment that has been although in most cases Tormeking* them has been wonderfully easy and successful.    I am sure I have an SVH-60 but my working week see me in hotels away from home so I won’t know until Friday.  That said Rich already has me thinking out of the box how to make a jig to butt against the straight jig to ensure left/right or front/back uniformity on a double bevel (if that makes sense).  With the SVS-50 that problem doesn’t exist so looking forward to home time on Friday to play again.  While I am sure I must have the old straight jig I don't know for sure since I use a scary sharp method for my hand chisels; am I allowed to say that?

Again that’s for the welcome but I am not sure I’d sign up for the handle 'old hand'.  I might be old but time on the tools is very limited thanks to working away all the time but with retirement just around the corner that is soon to change.

John

*Sorry, new verb there, don’t think it works very well.

Offline Ken S

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 12:52:29 pm »
John,

I dug out my original square edge jig. It would work, but not easily. I would suggest placing the support bar just clear of the grinding wheel and using that as a platform. Grade your grinding wheel very fine. Mark your bevels. Use very light grinding pressure. You are doing touch up sharpening on a small area; you have very little steel to remove. Work slowly at first. Some tools are easier to sharpen "handheld" ( in this case supported by the support bar).

Keep us posted.

Ken

Offline jwl940

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 11:33:41 am »
Hi Ken, thanks for your continued advice and encouragement, much appreciated.  Very short period at home this weekend but I managed to grab 30 minutes in the shed and found I did own a square jig, it must have had an hour's use in the past 18ish years.  Unless I’ve missed something fundamental I can't see why the old jig wouldn’t work reprofiling a square chisel to a 2 bevel skew.  I’ve even made a little wooden jig to repeat the angle both sides.  At this point I was going to insert a picture to show what I mean but how to get the image between the [img] brackets has defeated me, I am using an iPad.  What I can’t do using the old square is replicate Rich's extension of 32mm even with the horizontal bar a millimetre away from the wheel.  Another picture meant to go here - fail.  I think there are some maths on Rich's web site showing all the extensions, something to look at one evening this week.  Using the horizontal bar as a rest when touching up is something I haven’t considered but makes a lot of sense.

One of the things that has ticked me off about the Tormek from day one is the water trough.  I've yet to remove it without soaking the bench but in a flash of inspiration I connected a 60ml syringe to a length of thin pipe and now I suck some water out until the level is low enough to remove the trough without a flood, third photo fail here.

Hopefully a decent period at home next weekend to actually do some carving.  And on that final note is there a place where on t’web where carvers hang out to swap yarns, tips and tall stories?  I’ve been pointed towards MaryMay's site but it’s a little too commercial for me.

Offline Ken S

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 12:16:08 pm »
John,

Your syringe is a variation on the forum fix. One of our members (Sharpen a Dull Wit, as I recall) in a stroke of very sharp wittedness suggested using a turkey baster. As our UK friends would say, "it works a treat".

I keep a few empty plastic peanut butter jars in my shop for clean and used sharpening water. I use the turkey baster to remove most of the water from the water trough (while still attached to the Tormek). The used water goes in a plastic jar to be dumped. I use a paper towel to clean out the swarf and then a quick rinse in the utility sink. Very little spillage.

The Tormek Rubber Work Mat has a lip to catch any errant dripping. It definitely works a treat, although a pricey treat.

Check your PMs for a message with a carving newsletter.

Ken

Offline jwl940

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2018, 12:37:11 pm »
Thanks Ken, your PM has been squashed by the internet police.  When I click on the link this is the cut and paste message I get:

451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact webmaster@thepostnewspapers.com or call 330-721-7678.


There is a large dark sedan with 4 besuited men all wearing hearing aids and sun glasses arriving outside my door as I type.  I am going outside, I may be some time!

Offline Ken S

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2018, 04:20:31 pm »
John,

When you are released from custody, try a search, “carver describes the ark of his hobby”. The next time I get an email with their club newsletter, I will wait until all the black SUVs leave your house and send it to you.Tim is also a Flexcut rep, and may have contact information for carvers in many areas.

Ken

Offline jwl940

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Re: SVS-50 advice please
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2018, 11:22:45 am »
Time to put this thread to bed.  I tried the square edge jig as suggested and while it worked there was a but...  Had it have been a single edge skew I was trying to make there would have been no problems at all but with a double edge there was a need to invert the chisel in the jig a number of times while having to replicate the skew angle exactly.  I don’t know if this was too much faff or my OCD kicked in but it wasn’t something I was comfortable with.

As luck would have it on Thursday I found myself, with a minor detour, at one of the UK's turning/carving dealerships.  Unfortunately while there I had my pocket picked, unbeknown to me my left hand took out my wallet and before I realised what had happened I was the owner of the upgraded SVS-50 whose closed housing does accommodate gouge widths less than 10mm unlike the older version.  Retirement beckons next year and while there I also had the chance to fondle, caress and whisper sweet nothings to a new lathe.  The wallet however stayed firmly picketed this time.

Thirty minutes with the new jig soon converted a straight chisel into a 20degree double bevel skew.

Great forum, thanks to all for their help and encouragement.