Author Topic: Saturday morning sharpening  (Read 2317 times)

Offline Ken S

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Saturday morning sharpening
« on: October 27, 2018, 10:37:59 pm »
This morning Rich Colvin invited me to attend a sharpening demonstration put on by the Central Ohio Woodturners. Rich was demonstrating the Tormek. Four other club members were demonstrating other sharpening systems. The atmosphere was positive and not at all competitive. It was refreshing; everyone was just trying to promote sharp turning tools.

]
The first photo shows the five demonstrators.

In photos two through four, Rich is on the left wearing the Tormek hat.

It was an enjoyable and informative morning.

Ken

PS As some of you may note, i am finally getting to the point where I can insert photos easily.  :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 10:43:54 pm by Ken S »

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Saturday morning sharpening
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2018, 11:30:46 pm »
Ken,

Thank you for your help today.  It was greatly appreciated.

Small group, and everyone got hands on with various approaches.  And we got nice feedback that it was well received.

Kind regards,
Rich
---------------------------
Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.ColvinTools.com

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Saturday morning sharpening
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2018, 02:57:20 am »
Rich,

It was a very interesting morning for me on several levels. While most people think of using Tormek jigs with dry grinders using the BGM-100, I was imagining ways to use the various other systems, especially Sharp Fast, Robo Rest, and Oneway Wolverine, with the Tormek. (I know, I already have too many projects backed up.)

Much more to post, but the day has ended. Your Sharpening Handbook is a most useful resource.

Ken

Offline Ken S

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Re: Saturday morning sharpening
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2018, 01:23:36 pm »
Yesterday morning was a rare opportunity for me. My knowledge of other sharpening systems has been mostly acquired by watching online you tubes done by presenters of varying  abilities. Yesterday I saw the Tormek and three other systems presented by four experienced turners who had a lot of experience using those systems. There was not a sales person in the bunch. Their goal was to share their experience.


The other three systems were variations of whatis typified by the Oneway Wolverine. One was the Wolverine; one was a sophisticated system which could create triple grinds to turn wearable hats. It was impressive, but far beyond my ability or interest. The third was part of the Sharp Fast system. The presenter had one side of his grinder tooled up for the Sharp Fast and the other set up with a Robo Rest. Unfortunately, he had left the gouge jig for his Sharp Fast at home and was really presenting the Robo Rest.

For someone doing a lot of platform grinding, the Torlock platform and the Robo Rest would be a good pairing. (I would make it a trio and include one of Herman’s small platforms.) The Torlock fastens easily and very securely. It can be adjusted very accurately. The Robo Rest uses a loose fitting standard T shaped Allen wrench to hold the settings. It has holes for every five degrees. While no match for the Torlock for accuracy or rigidity, it is more than adequate in these areas. It is also very fast to operate. If I decide to expand my Tormek system, a Robo Rest is on my short list to acquire. I have not seen the version which fits the Wolverine system, however, I would lean toward it, as it is easily placed and removed.

The other three systems used conventional dry grinders. As I recall, all three used “slow speed” 1725 RPM motors. Some used wider CBN wheels. The CBN wheels were 1 1/2” wide, wider than the standard 1” wide grinding wheels. Neither matched the luxury of a 50 mm (2”) wide Tormek wheel. I have not seen it in person, however, I believe the Sharp Fast gouge jig is the best design for narrow grinding wheels. For the record, I had no trouble reshaping a bowl gouge using my T4, SVD-186, and a 1” wide Norton 3X wheel.


For resharpening the same configuration, I would consider the Tormek SVD-186 and the Wolverine Varijig evenly matched. Both were fast and accurate. For anyone wanting to work with a number of grinds, I would give the nod to the Tormek jig. Tormek certainly provides more instructional material.

It did not surprise me that at the end of the demonstration, Rich had no spilled water on his table. When we carried everything out to his truck at the end, I carried his rotating base. It was dry. The water in his trough showed much grinding debris, however, all of the water was contained in his trough. Rich’s table was also the only one with no grinding dust.

The main advantage the other systems had over the Tormek was speed. This is somewhat due to the difference in motor speed. Another factor is the grit of the grinding wheels. Tormek has never made a coarse wheel. The 220 grit SG and SB wheels are adequately coarse for sharpening. They do not reshape well. The new diamond DC and DWC (for the T2 and T4) wheels narrow the speed gap for reshaping. For a one time operation, they are still slow, but fast enough to reduce the frustration. Other third party wheels are even coarser.

I like the Tormek philosophy of using a single grinding wheel and grading it. It works very well for sharpening. Speed of cutting has never been Tormek’s strong area; Tormek is known for cool, dust and spark free grinding which produces very keen edges with minimal steel removal. I would like to see Tormek offer a true coarse grinding wheel to supplement the system.

I may incorporate parts of the other systems into my Tormek system. However, my Tormek remains the system anchor.

Ken

Offline cbwx34

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Re: Saturday morning sharpening
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2018, 03:06:24 pm »
...
PS As some of you may note, i am finally getting to the point where I can insert photos easily.  :)

Two thumbs up! 👍 👍  Looks good!


...
It did not surprise me that at the end of the demonstration, Rich had no spilled water on his table. When we carried everything out to his truck at the end, I carried his rotating base. It was dry. The water in his trough showed much grinding debris, however, all of the water was contained in his trough. Rich’s table was also the only one with no grinding dust.
...

It's usually tools that are wider than the stone (mainly knives) that cause water to build up and run off the edge.

Interesting info though!
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Saturday morning sharpening
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2018, 04:18:55 pm »
One of the key points Ken & I both raised is that the Tormek is a really great all-around tool which is well-built.  Some were amazed that my Tormek is almost 20 years old and the only parts I’ve replaced are the drive shaft (to get the EZ-off nut) and the USB (to get the micro adjust advantages).  Neither part was worn out.

I am like many in that I sharpen tools other than merely wood turning tools.  The discussion about sharpening drill bits and knives (and my wife’s scissors and rotary cutters) got some really agreeable nods, especially from a few folks who have used Drill Doctors.

Secondly, we discussed the three purposes of tools used for sharpening :

1. shaping tools, which:
  • really only happens when one buys a new tool with the factory grind which,
  • is really slow for bigger tools on a Tormek,
  • is probably best done on a traditional grinder (or as Ken advocates, using a high grit wheel on the Tormek)
2. sharpening tools, and

3. honing tools, especially for the final cuts on an object to leave the best surface and for carving tools (which more and more wood turners are using to embellish their turned items).
  • the leather wheel is a good option,
  • as are paper wheels.

And lastly, we talked about how the Tormek (and CBN wheel based approaches) don’t erode away the tools quickly as is done with friable wheels.  (Nor does either de-temper the tool steel.)


At the start, I mentioned that I’d started my sharpening using the Wolverine system, and upgraded to the Tormek when I could afford it.  I told everyone that I was able to sell the parts, making it to not be a lost investment.


I think that the Tormek system combined with a CBN wheel is something a new turner should consider.  They can acquire the jigs as they go, and at some point make the upgrade to a Tormek grinder.

Kind regards,
Rich
---------------------------
Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.ColvinTools.com

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Saturday morning sharpening
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2018, 08:14:27 pm »
Rich makes a very good point. I would be comfortable using any of the systems being demonstrated to sharpen turning tools. Why not? They are well designed and used by many professional and advanced turners. Sharpening drill bits, scissors, and many other tools is one of the things which sets Tormek apart. The other systems looked well built and, like Rich's SuperGrind, could last more than twenty years. They just have a more limited scope.

My thoughts are not to bash them; my thoughts are about including parts of them to make my Tormek even more versatile.

Ken