Author Topic: Stone turning toward you or away  (Read 1000 times)

Offline EKBoston

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Stone turning toward you or away
« on: January 03, 2019, 01:18:12 am »
So I just received my T8 Dec 28th and spent many hours reading the material and watching You Tube. Finally went down cellar with my cheap stamped blade to sharpen what I thought I learned. Did not do a good job using the angle finder and chewed up the edge. But the real reason for writing was the knife jumped on me twice and scared the bejesus out of me. Enough so I stopped to go back and look at more videos. I don't like the idea of the wheel turning towards me and fully understand I need to get the correct pressure from both hands to stop the knife from jumping. I want to ask the forum are there folks out there who sharpen using the universal bar in a horizontal position with the wheel turning against me?

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 01:48:39 am »
Ed,

I use turning away (horizontal) most often, but switch to turning towards (vertical) for:
  • when highly acute angles are needed,
  • when more aggressive work is needed (e.g., carbide insert wood turning scrapers), and
  • sharpening scissors.
Kind regards,
Rich
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 01:50:19 am by RichColvin »
---------------------------
Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Online Ken S

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 08:40:41 am »
Welcme to the forum, Ed.

The problem many beginning Tormek users have is that they don't remember being beginners with other skills. Are you old enough to remember learning to drive with a stick shift? Beng fluent with starting on a hill takes some finesse. If we are not still sitting on that hill, presumably we learned that skill. While it has become a long distant memory when we first learned to ride a bicycle without the trainng wheels, who can forget either the terror or excitement of watching our children or grandchildren make that first ride?

Please read the first topic, "Tormek Tips". Read just the initial post. (The topic became bloated and is in need of a major revision.) The knife people of the forum will cry "waste of time" learning to sharpen a chisel, just like piano students detest learning scales. Do this practice right; do not short cut or avoid it. It will teach you the fundamentals of the Tormek in digestable, bite sized pieces. When you become proficient and practiced with using the Tormek with Irwin Blue Chip 3/4” bench chisels, switching to knives will be a minor change, whether you choose to grind into or trailing the edge. (You should master both directions.)

Buy a couple of these specigic chisels. Do not buy a set of several different widths. These are learning tools. They are not cheap tools; they are inexpensive tools. Your T8 came with the necessary jig. Each chisel should cost around ten dollars US. Online prices vary; spend a little time compArison shopping. Do not obsess over grinding the edge square. Sharpness is important; squareness can wait. Incidentally, I have purchased around a dozen of these 3/4” Blue Chip chisels. Having more than one lets you quickly and easily compare different stages of grinding.

For your benefit right now, the chisel is securely clamped it the square edge jig. The square edge jig is secured in the universal support bar; it cannot jump around. You gain vonfidence.

I am presently going through the same kind of learning process that you are. I am learning how to turn with a wood lathe. The most versatile turning tool is the dreaded skew chisel. It can catch, a jolting and unnerving experience. Consequently, many turners avoid the skew. By watching Alan Lacer's online videos, I learned to substitute the traditional four prong drive center with a safety center. This does not eliminate catches; it tames them. Without the fear of the skew, I can concentrate on proficiency.

You will soon develop that proficient confidence with the Tormek. Be patient; you will soon be an old hand with your clutch foot.

Keep us posted; you are with friends and not alone.

Ken

Offline GKC

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 10:52:45 am »
I want to ask the forum are there folks out there who sharpen using the universal bar in a horizontal position with the wheel turning against me?
As Ken says, with a little practice you will be proficient at grinding into the edge.  That is the technique I prefer.  However, there are some very experienced knife sharpeners who prefer using the bar in the horizontal position, with wheel turning away from the edge.  Here is a link to Steve Bottorff's YouTube video, in which he demonstrates and explains his preference for this technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKjMilG9LWY

Gord

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 07:55:14 pm »
...snip...
 I want to ask the forum are there folks out there who sharpen using the universal bar in a horizontal position with the wheel turning against me?

I believe there must be many who sharpen on the horizontal USB with the wheel turning away from them.  Steve Bottorff says that is how he does it, more for detecting the burr sooner.  I sharpen on the vertical USB with the wheel turning into the BLADE, but I am sitting on the side of the horizontal USB so the orientation of the wheel is turning away from ME.  Not because of any issue of safety or feeling of safety, it is just how I have come to doing it. 

I think part of your learning process is getting the feel of how much pressure to place on the jig/stop riding on the USB in the direction of holding it all against the USB in the direction of the wheel (not necessarily downward, but towards the wheel).  That will go a long way towards keeping the blade from being grabbed by the wheel and shoving the blade towards you.  The trick is learning how much pressure to use without causing too much friction making the jig assembly difficult to slide. 

I think Ken may be a little sensitive about his penchant for learning using chisels ;).  I agree they are a great way to learn, rather than starting with knives, no matter how cheap.  I did it that way, but quickly moved on. 

Rick
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 05:27:54 am by RickKrung »
If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline EKBoston

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 10:11:43 pm »
So trying to visualize but wouldn't the water down to the upward part of the tray spilling water instead of running water on the side that is angled. Hope that makes sense.

Offline GKC

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 12:07:45 am »
Actually, I find the water easier to handle when horizontal and grinding away from the edge because the water doesn't climb over the blade and head astray.  But water control is another skill you will master; keep the level low, just high enough to wet the wheel.  Watch the Bottorff video linked above, he shows how easy it is.

Gord

Online Ken S

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 12:32:33 pm »
So trying to visualize but wouldn't the water down to the upward part of the tray spilling water instead of running water on the side that is angled. Hope that makes sense.

Ed, you are overthinking. Set up your Tormek in a shallow lipped cookie sheet pan or a cafeteria tray. No tools or jigs; just your T8 and some water. Raise the water trough until it bumps the grinding wheel and back off one notch. Turn the motor on and add water until it starts to flow over the grinding wheel. As the wheel absorbs water, the top will dry out. Add a little more water until the water starts to flow over the top. You don't need much flow. Keep the motor running. Soon the wheel will stop absorbing water and your top flow will remain steady. As long as this flow is steady, do not add more water. Let your motor remain running throughout this process.

You can then start sharpening. The amount of water spillage, either vertical or horizontal, should be very minimal.

Rick, I may be overly sensitive about learning with chisels. In my defense, if I had started with a well regimented chisel learning program, I would have mastered the basic skill set quickly. You are correct that the chisel process should not take long. I still say that learning the Tormek with the simplist of edge tools is easier than beginning with knives, trying to match two small bevels using a non captured jig and the Anglemaster.

Ken

Offline EKBoston

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 01:37:39 pm »
Just have so many questions but want to make the questions interesting for all.
Love the idea of the foil tray. So simple but just did not think about it.
Thanks to all for helping.

Online Ken S

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 07:47:26 pm »
Ed,

We have all been where you are now. I stalled out on those hills more than most, and occasionally still do.

Enjoy the journey.

Ken

Offline bisonbladesharpening

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 05:05:37 pm »
I have asked this before on the forum mainly because of carpal tunnel (sp) or repetitive motion stress that I deal with.
I find that using the wheel running away from me allows the USB to carry a lot of the pressure and not my lower arms
especially on days that I may be sharpening several dozen knives for my switch-out service.  That being said, allowing the wheel to turn towards
me allows me to focus on proper technique by watching how the water flows over the blade and seems to keep the stone cutting a little better and longer
 without needing dressing.

Best wishes


Online Ken S

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Re: Stone turning toward you or away
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2019, 05:29:51 pm »
Very informative reply, Tim. Thanks for posting.

Ken