Author Topic: Rust on the washer  (Read 129 times)

Offline SHARPCO

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Rust on the washer
« on: February 14, 2019, 10:43:41 am »
A few weeks ago, I found thin rust on the washer. I've never seen it before.

The reason seems to be that the SG-250 was putted to the machine with water on the washer after using the CBN wheel.

The rust were not thick and could easily be removed with a Flitz polisher(check the photo).

So be careful. You have to wipe the washer before putting the wheel on the machine or always keep the wheel removed from the machine.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:46:31 am by SHARPCO »

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 10:52:15 am »
Of course you always empty the water trough after using the Tormek. The water saturates the wheel and migrates onto the washer. Leaving the stone immersed just prolongs the time the water has to get on the washer.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 11:47:59 am »
Was the CBN wheel being used wet with an antioxidant compound?

The Tormek was designed to operate with a water bath. In addition to keeping the tool being ground cool, the water bath traps all of the grinding debris. Long before Tormek introduced built in magnets in the water trough it was common practice to tape or epoxy a magnet to the outside of the water trough to isolate the ground steel.

CNN wheels have been marketed as having "the advantage" of being able to be used dry, without the fuss of having to use water. This is true, however, it is a mixed blessing. Eliminating the fuss also eliminates the benefits of the water bath. I routinely remove my grinding wheels after a sharpening session to let them dry. In the future, I will add the practice of wiping the spacer and shaft dry. I also place a plastic spacer in place of the wheel on the shaft to prevent the shaft from sliding.

Good observation, Sharpco.

Ken

ps My preference has always been to use an antioxidant compound with CBN or diamond wheels.

Offline SHARPCO

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 12:08:15 pm »
Of course you always empty the water trough after using the Tormek. The water saturates the wheel and migrates onto the washer. Leaving the stone immersed just prolongs the time the water has to get on the washer.

There was no water and trough. I think water on the surface of the washer cause the rust.

Offline SHARPCO

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 12:13:42 pm »
Was the CBN wheel being used wet with an antioxidant compound?

The Tormek was designed to operate with a water bath. In addition to keeping the tool being ground cool, the water bath traps all of the grinding debris. Long before Tormek introduced built in magnets in the water trough it was common practice to tape or epoxy a magnet to the outside of the water trough to isolate the ground steel.

CNN wheels have been marketed as having "the advantage" of being able to be used dry, without the fuss of having to use water. This is true, however, it is a mixed blessing. Eliminating the fuss also eliminates the benefits of the water bath. I routinely remove my grinding wheels after a sharpening session to let them dry. In the future, I will add the practice of wiping the spacer and shaft dry. I also place a plastic spacer in place of the wheel on the shaft to prevent the shaft from sliding.

Good observation, Sharpco.

Ken

ps My preference has always been to use an antioxidant compound with CBN or diamond wheels.

Ken.

No. I used pure tap water.

I believe removing the wheel from the machine is good. I use an aluminum spacer.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 01:17:18 pm »
From the woodturnerswonders website (Tormek styly CBN wheels):

"*CBN wheels CAN run in water ONLY if dried very well immediately after use or a corrosion resistant material is used. WATER CAN CAUSE CORROSION. Use of these wheels in water can void lifetime warranty if not properly cared for when used wet. "

I think the use of an antioxidant solution dilutes 1:25 with water is a wise precaution with CBN or diamond wheels, and not a bad idea with Original grinding wheels.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose to use an aluminum spacer washer instead of stainless steel?

Ken

Offline SHARPCO

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 01:47:42 pm »
From the woodturnerswonders website (Tormek styly CBN wheels):

"*CBN wheels CAN run in water ONLY if dried very well immediately after use or a corrosion resistant material is used. WATER CAN CAUSE CORROSION. Use of these wheels in water can void lifetime warranty if not properly cared for when used wet. "

I think the use of an antioxidant solution dilutes 1:25 with water is a wise precaution with CBN or diamond wheels, and not a bad idea with Original grinding wheels.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose to use an aluminum spacer washer instead of stainless steel?

Ken

That's why I brush the surface of CBN wheel after using.

My aluminum spacer is a substitute for the white plastic spacer. I use it for using honing wheel.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 01:56:49 pm by SHARPCO »

Offline cbwx34

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 03:07:32 pm »
I've seen rust on mine... I think the another possible reason may just be the way water can run off a knife, or any tool that extends over the edge of the wheel, can cause water to run down the side getting that area wet.

A check and periodic cleaning should be done... even with the improved stainless steel shaft.


...
My aluminum spacer is a substitute for the white plastic spacer. I use it for using honing wheel.

If you haven't seen it in action, this can be a bit confusing.  This video shows where the spacer is used...  it keeps the shaft from sliding out during honing when the the grinding wheel is removed.  (At 11:50 if it doesn't start there)....

https://youtu.be/mXqPCRkb8ww?t=710

:)

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 05:07:59 am »
That is a great video.
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Rich Colvin
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Offline RickKrung

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 06:52:26 am »
...snip...
Out of curiosity, why did you choose to use an aluminum spacer washer instead of stainless steel?

Ken

That's why I brush the surface of CBN wheel after using.

My aluminum spacer is a substitute for the white plastic spacer. I use it for using honing wheel.


I've been using an aluminum spacer like that since last April for honing when taking the grinding wheel off, which I do for nearly all honing. 

I used aluminum because it was handy, easy to machine and nearly as corrosion resistant as stainless.  I have not liked it as much because it tends to bind a bit if left on.  But, that may be because I reamed the hole in the spacer with a 12mm reamer instead of just drilling or boring it a bit more oversized. 

It seems to me that rust on the washer could only come from steel particles from grinding, carried by water onto the washer when it was all used wet.  The washer itself is stainless and should not be the source of the rust.  Do you not see rusty shavings on the magnet in the trough? 

Rick
If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 10:34:12 am »
" I have not liked it as much because it tends to bind a bit if left on" I suspect that binding is caused by the different metals touching resulting in galvanic corrosion or whatever you call it when dissimilar metals remain in contact with each other. If your shaft were stainless, that may or may not prove me wrong. Stainless is fairly non reactive but not totally.

Offline SHARPCO

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 11:30:08 am »
It seems to me that rust on the washer could only come from steel particles from grinding, carried by water onto the washer when it was all used wet.  The washer itself is stainless and should not be the source of the rust.  Do you not see rusty shavings on the magnet in the trough? 

I didn't see it at the time. It can only be seen when sharpening a carbon steel knife.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 02:05:37 pm »
I think the solution with the spacer is to use plastic, either plastic pipe or a part made with a 3D printer. I would like to see the spacer provided by Tormek be thicker. It functions well for its designed purpose, preventing the shaft from sliding during shipping. For day to day use, I think a thicker version would work better. I have used 5/8” Outside Diameter plastic water pipe which I have crudely drilled and reamed. I have also used oversized plastic electrical conduit. Neither is an ideal fit, however, both do the job.

If I can get my grandson interested in using his 3D printer again, I will continue my project making these spacers with 3D printing.

Ken

Offline GeoTech

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 03:51:18 am »
It seems to me that rust on the washer could only come from steel particles from grinding, carried by water onto the washer when it was all used wet.  The washer itself is stainless and should not be the source of the rust.
Bingo!

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Rust on the washer
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 05:44:26 am »
Well, stainless steel does rust, just not as much.
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