Author Topic: Price of ACC-150  (Read 3722 times)

Offline wootz

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 10:31:50 am »
Our customer from Austria, a professional sharpener Fritz "Messerschleiferei-Amstetten", has been using an alternative "solution" for wet grinding on Tormek for years



Fritz has a couple of YouTube videos sparkling with good humour e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtNiLm4lGYE
 :D
You can tell by number of jigs and wheels on his bench that this man is not kidding when it comes to sharpening, Fritz uses in his sharpening business Tormek T3, T4 and T8, and recently added our software and FVB.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 10:48:58 am by wootz »

Offline Ken S

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2019, 01:08:18 pm »
My personal feelings about ACC-150 are not very positive but lets look at the facts first:

The Security Data Sheet declares the product as a solution of Dodecanedioic Acid at >1 <10% concentration. This means one Liter of the ACC - fluid holds in between 10 to 100 grams of the acid which comes as a powder.

The chemical itself is a common one which can be easily buyed at chemical dealers (Merck for example). I got prices of about $70 for 100 grams or about $280 for a 500 gram package.

Considering a medial conecntration of 5% one can manufacture 2 Liters for $ 70 (resp. 10 Liters for $ 280). That means approximately 4.5 to 6 $ for a bottle. (Considering the minimum specified concentration of > 1% makes it much cheaper!)

I suppose Tormek gets much better conditions buying in larger quantities.

Do I have made an error? If not the price for the ACC-150 seems to me more like a robbery than a fair deal.

Just my five cents!

Rolf (Hatchcanyon),

I see your point about the potential for large savings from buying chemicals in bulk and mixing your own from scratch. I did this for years in my photographic darkroom.

My father was my first photography teacher. Dad was a very skilled photographer and a thrifty person. In an era when most home darkroom users purchased packaged dry developers, mixed up quart or gallon solutions and then reused them guessing how to compensate with replenishers, Dad weighed out individual dry chemicals and mixed his own developers. His developers were always fresh, always consistent, and very inexpensive.

We can do that with many things. A pound container of ascorbic acid crystals (vitamin C) is very inexpensive and lasts a very long time. So is a large can of grease used to relubricate the Tormek during the annual inspection and greasing. Mixing one's own ACC from dry chemicals probably makes excellent sense for our members who allegedly sharpen for thousands of hours. If I was a farmers market sharpener, I would definitely look into it.

For the typical Tormek sharpener, the convenience of already prepared ACC in small bottles may be more desirable than the potential cost savings of bulk purchase. I think we should take a realistic look at the volume of sharpening we actually do and compare the pros and cons of all options.

Ken

When I started testing CBN wheels, neither Tormek diamond wheels nor ACC were available. I used Honerite Gold, which also works well. It is comparably priced with Tormek ACC.

Offline wderke

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2019, 08:13:58 pm »
So you are correct, delawarewolf132 on eBay is Advanced Machinery. The Advanced Machinery site price is also $39.95, which is the Tormek MAP price. The Amazon price of $49.95 is also our listing, as no one else has bothered to list either the fluid, Diamond Wheels or Multi Base on Amazon, and I would like to tell all of you that whenever we can, we increase the price on Amazon in order to ameliorate the substantial selling fees and return policies which Amazon dictates to us. You will always find the best price on the Advanced Machinery site.

Offline Hatchcanyon

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2019, 08:53:14 pm »

I see your point about the potential for large savings from buying chemicals in bulk and mixing your own from scratch. I did this for years in my photographic darkroom.

Sorry that is not exactly my point.

It is more about such a large difference between prime cost and selling price. Someone could offer something equal to ACC 150 for a third of Tormeks price and still make a reasonable profit.

My opinion: ACC 150 is totally overpriced. Simply unfair to Tormek customers.

Rolf
German with a second home in the American Southwestern Desert - loves Old England too.

Offline wootz

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2019, 10:27:53 pm »
Rolf, personally I'd feel uncomfortable criticizing Tormek pricing on the Tormek-owned forum. There are so many costs adding to the production cost, from packing and transportation to marketing and advertising and all the overheads in-between, plus the wholesale importer and retailer margin, let alone taxes in Sweden and the consumer  country.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 10:58:34 pm by wootz »

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2019, 11:34:46 pm »
I also wonder how long it takes to sell the equivalent of 1 55 gal drum of ACC-150.

When you are in business and pay taxes they also ding you for your inventory. While the price is a bit high considering the raw chemical cost it is similar to many other things currently on the market. I once thought buying duct tape in bulk was the way to go. I am, after almost 30 years on my last roll. I must say Mil-Spec tape was made to last.
Sharpen the knife blade
Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

Offline Ken S

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2019, 01:41:14 am »
Rolf,

Like Wootz, I have felt uncomfortable criticizing Tormek's pricing on this Tormek provided forum. As forum moderator, I will leave this topic in place, but hope we can move on to other topics.

Ken

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2019, 12:21:27 pm »
I do not know what ACC 150 is as I do not use it. I do see criticism of its price which most folks seem to think is exorbitant. It is the same set up as printer ink. I thought printer ink was the most expensive item on earth. Has anyone done the math on its cost per gallon? Isn't it something like a million dollars? Just kidding on that but it ain't cheap. These days I go for made in China generic ink but don't know if there is a better/cheaper option for the ACC stuff. You might consider whether or not you are ADD over ACC and whether or not it is even necessary. I see that ACC is an anti corrosive. What are you trying to prevent corrosion on? Why wouldn't anti freeze work? Since the stone is not a stone but a metal disk, you don't have the same issues.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 03:44:02 pm by jeffs55 »
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Price of ACC-150
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2019, 05:02:41 pm »
Jeff,

I look at ACC the same way I view insurance. With each of the three diamond wheels costing from $300 to $350 US, we are looking at an investment of $300 to $1000. We have insurance policies to protect us from risk from house damage, auto damage, illness, death, etc. Once we decide to invest in diamond grinding wheels, ACC helps to protect us from the risk of premature failure.

Part of what makes ACC look expensive is that we have been using plain water for decades. We still have that option with the Original grinding wheels. For most of us, the Original SG wheel and water is all that we will ever need. However, many of us want speed. This makes sense for a busy professional sharpener. For someone like me, who may have three knives to sharpen, the need for speed does not seem so critical.

I like having the choice.

Ken