Author Topic: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up  (Read 442 times)

Offline Sam Sloane

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Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« on: March 12, 2019, 01:43:15 pm »
Morning All,

I do my bevel grinding on a Tormek T8, but wanted a better faster way to finish the edge.

I have a brand new Paper Wheel set up now, but having never seen one LIVE, I am thinking there must be tricks to getting them running true, better than what I have. If videos would be helpful, I could post them, to see what I have....

I have a 3/4 Hp dual ended Buffer variable speed.
Main Shaft is 20mm, with 5/8" dia for mounting 10" wheels.
I have flattened the wheels as best I can by clamping for a few days
I replaced the cheap pressed washers with 0.375" thk steel washers, lazer cut.
I block sanded the out diameter of the paper wheels to try to true the ODs

The result works, but I did expect better results....the knife blades still "bump" along while honing.....I wasn't expecting a super balanced result, but I did think it would be better!

Any suggestions?

Sam

Pic attached....

Offline cbwx34

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Re: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 02:55:56 pm »
Morning All,

I do my bevel grinding on a Tormek T8, but wanted a better faster way to finish the edge.

I have a brand new Paper Wheel set up now, but having never seen one LIVE, I am thinking there must be tricks to getting them running true, better than what I have. If videos would be helpful, I could post them, to see what I have....

I have a 3/4 Hp dual ended Buffer variable speed.
Main Shaft is 20mm, with 5/8" dia for mounting 10" wheels.
I have flattened the wheels as best I can by clamping for a few days
I replaced the cheap pressed washers with 0.375" thk steel washers, lazer cut.
I block sanded the out diameter of the paper wheels to try to true the ODs

The result works, but I did expect better results....the knife blades still "bump" along while honing.....I wasn't expecting a super balanced result, but I did think it would be better!

Any suggestions?

Sam

Pic attached....

First, nice setup.

My .02... paper wheels are designed to be run at a decent speed and with a very light touch.  If you feel your blade "bump along"... you're probably pressing too hard.   

A lot of users try to run them slow, they don't work as well, and don't get good results.  (If you slow down your buffer, then speed it up... you'll see the difference in how they run).

I think, based on your post, unless something isn't right overall (like a bad shaft, bad wheel or something), you've probably done all you can do... and beyond what is even needed.  I think you just need some practice... it's a different feel and technique than what you're probably used to.  This may not make sense until you use them, but I actually go more by sound than feel on the wheels... you'll hear a change in tone when the blade is making contact, which is sooner than you feel it... especially in the honing stage.  Get a practice knife and just play with them a bit until you're comfortable with them... and think "light touch". :)  Try different speeds and note the difference.

(And hopefully, you're not running them where you took that picture!)  :-\

Offline Ken S

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Re: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 04:45:01 pm »
Sam,

I just found a very good you tube on using paper wheels in the wee hours of this morning by Sharpco. We have at least three forum members who have posted very good you tubes: Steve Bottorff,
KnifeGrinders (Wootz), and Sharpco. I have learned from studying all three of their channels, and highly recommend all three channels.

I believe that the major changes we are witnessing in grinding wheels are also happening in finishing methods. We are seeing new and really improved specialized honing compounds. The stalwart Tormek PA-70 honing compound, very good as an all around choice, is being challenged by new kids with diamonds or CBN. We are also seeing new kid ideas for stone grading.

Please keep us posted with your paper wheel work. I will do the same with the eight inch hard felt wheel I have in early experimental stages.

Check out our three members' you tube channels.

Ken

Offline Peter Eaton

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Re: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 07:56:11 pm »
I have been having the same issue with my paper wheels. The problem in my case and most likely yours is as follows.

Firstly the metal plates that are flat against the paper discs which are clamped tight will most likely be out of true. The solution is to get an engineer to turn them in a lathe so they spins perfectly. I did got a pal to do this on my set up and it solved the problem on one wheel.

The other issue which occurred on my set up was that the washer on the shaft of the buffer/grinder had play in it as it was slightly oversized. This meant that when the nut tightened against it and the washer against the metal plate on the outside of the paper wheel, the washer would be pushed outwards so that it wasn't central to the shaft. When the shaft spins there will be an in balance and a wobble will occur.


The solution to this it to have the faces of the nuts that sit against the washer turned so that there is a lip. That lip is less than depth of the thickness of the washer. The washer then sits over the lip and this locks the washer EXACTLY central on the nut, it is impossible for it to move when tigntened again against the metal plate. Everything will now be perfectly balanced to the shaft of the buffer which is the most important part of the whole setup.

You can then fine tune your wheels.


If my explanation isnt understood, just show an engineer what I have said and they will more than likely know and be able to help you for the price of a few beers, this is not a huge job to an engineer and most will have done this type of work when truing grinders and all sorts of running shafts on machines.


Bottom image shows the lip, top image shows the washer locked securely onto the lip.......it aint going anywhere once tightend ))

Pete
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 10:55:55 am by Peter Eaton »

Offline AKMike

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Re: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 08:06:52 pm »
Oneway sells a balancing system for bench grinders which may, or may not, be cheaper than having the wheel flanges engineered.

https://oneway.ca/products-category/sharpening-grinding-jigs/Balancing%20Systems

Mike

Offline Sam Sloane

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Re: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 09:17:16 pm »
Hi Mike,

Have you tried this with Paper Wheels???.......look interesting!!!

Offline Sam Sloane

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Re: Balancing and Truing a Paper Wheel Honing Set Up
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 12:26:14 am »
I found a video of this on grinding stones.....

besides the 1" dia hole required ( my paper wheel is 5/8" dia) I wonder if the lighter mass of the paper wheel may not overcome frictional forces in the bearing system on the test stand....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PkMTcKt5s4