Author Topic: Tested a New Roughing Stone  (Read 825 times)

Offline RichColvin

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Tested a New Roughing Stone
« on: May 06, 2019, 08:53:59 pm »
I have been intrigued for a while by Ken's reference to a low-grit stone on the Tormek, but wanted to try a 10-inch stone.  I ordered and tried this :

Shark 10-Inch diameter, 1-Inch wide Grinding Wheel, Grit-46 (#2035-46)

I found it on Amazon for less than $35.  It did not fit the 12mm Tormek shaft, so I had to make a bushing so it would fit properly on the Tormek.  I used aluminium as I had some 2" aluminium bar stock, but an oily hard wood would have probably also worked.


My quick testing, using it with water (not dry!) showed that this grindstone worked much quicker than the SB grindstone, and produced a surface that was quickly and easily cleaned up on the SB grindstone. 

I did not find that it was significantly quicker for carbide inserts on my metal lathe tooling.  Will have to stay with the typical, high speed bench grinder for shaping that.  (The SB wheel works well for sharpening carbide.)

Overall, I am quite pleased and it will be used whenever I need to re-shape tools, especially HSS.

Kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 07:20:25 am »
I have been intrigued for a while by Ken's reference to a low-grit stone on the Tormek, but wanted to try a 10-inch stone.  I ordered and tried this :

Shark 10-Inch diameter, 1-Inch wide Grinding Wheel, Grit-46 (#2035-46)

I found it on Amazon for less than $35.  It did not fit the 12mm Tormek shaft, so I had to make a bushing so it would fit properly on the Tormek.  I used aluminium as I had some 2" aluminium bar stock, but an oily hard wood would have probably also worked.


My quick testing, using it with water (not dry!) showed that this grindstone worked much quicker than the SB grindstone, and produced a surface that was quickly and easily cleaned up on the SB grindstone. 

I did not find that it was significantly quicker for carbide inserts on my metal lathe tooling.  Will have to stay with the typical, high speed bench grinder for shaping that.  (The SB wheel works well for sharpening carbide.)

Overall, I am quite pleased and it will be used whenever I need to re-shape tools, especially HSS.

Kind regards,
Rich

Nice.  Glad you have joined the puddle (not to the "ranks" stage yet) of us using these more traditional grindstones on the Tormek.  I have been looking for a good 10" stone like what you got.  I have found them, but I've been trying to find one wider than 1".  I've come across some, but have not pulled the trigger.

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 04:15:17 pm »
Rick,

I’d also prefer a 2” wide stone.  Let me know what you find.

Kind regards,
Rich
---------------------------
Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2019, 03:03:29 am »
Rich,

I think you have found a very interesting and useful grinding wheel. I am glad you have been using it wet. In my opinion, that's the way Tormeks should be used.

A couple changes since my pioneering days with the Norton 3X wheels: Woodturningwonders now sells stainless steel reducing bushings 5/8” to 12mm. Also, Advanced Machinery (advmachinery.com) sells the thick spacer washer which goes between the grinding wheel and the shaft. Adding an extra couple washers fills in the space when using one inch thick grinding wheels.

One caveat: 46 grit wheels are coarse. They are intended to remove metal quickly. They excel at reshaping tools or removing major nicks. Switch to a finer stone for regular grinding. Having a coarse wheel is a nice addition to your Tormek arsenal, especially at a real bargain price.

Good find, Rich.

Ken

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 10:58:30 am »
Rich,
I ordered a shark grinding wheel from Amazon. Like you and Rick, I would prefer a wider stone, however, for the price, I can live with the narrower stone. I will be curious to read our diverse reactions. It should make quick work of gouge and skew reshaping.
Ken

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 11:10:52 am »
It should make quick work of gouge and skew reshaping.
Ken

Why would you be reshaping them? once shaped avoid nails and keep them the same shape... if you need a different shape buy another tool  ;)

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2019, 11:15:44 am »
I just looked at that grinding wheel to see what the conversation was about. Looks to me like you could actually place two of them side by side. You may have to remove the labeling on the sides but it looks doable for those wanting two inch wheels. Drive shaft length permitting of course.
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2019, 05:28:14 pm »
Pete (Twisted Trees),

One of the things I like about this forum is being able to bounce my ideas off of wiser members. You are quite correct. Jeff Farris recommended the same thing; it is better just to buy another new tool than to reshape if not necessary.

What originally inspired me to look for a coarse wheel for the Tormek was the frustration Rob had with the skews he inherited from his father. They needed to be reshaped due to years of less than careful sharpening. Rob had much frustration working on these. I found that a Norton 3X 46 or 80 grit grinding wheel tamed the problem.

Must dash... Sometimes it's nice to have a grinding wheel which removes more metal.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2019, 02:20:27 am »
Update......

I have had a chance to work on fitting the new 10” x 1” 46 grit wheel. I had problems with the grinding wheel slipping. I think I have finally found a workable solution.

The bore or Inside Diameter of the wheel is 1 1/4”. It comes with a series of stacking plastic reducing bushings. My solution is to use only the 1 1/4” to 1” bushing. Used in conjunction with a D-Way 1” to 12 mm steel reducing bushing, the fit is good with the Tormek. The D-Way bushing fits both the Tormek 12 mm shaft the the thickness of either the T4 or T8 well.

More very soon.

"very soon"........
This solution is not a perfect option. It has two major factors in its favor: 1) It cuts very fast. It is 46 grit.
2) It is very inexpensive. The combined parts cost around $55 US. Compared to between $200 and $300 US for Tormek or CBN options, this is definitely cost effective.

Not all is roses. The D-Way steel bushing is well machined, however, it is not stainless steel. It requires Tormek ACC or other anti rust solution. However, comparing the cost of the bushing, around $15, with the cost of having a stainless steel bushing custom machined, the difference can pay for a lot of ACC.

I have not yet done so, however, I will probably end up epoxying the 1 1/4” to 1” plastic reducing ring to the grinding wheel.

The quality of the grinding wheel looks very adequate. We are not comparing like for like with a Tormek SG.

It will require several nylon rings to keep the wheel from slipping.

I think it will prove a very satisfactory fast cutting coarse grinding wheel. For me, it will peplace any need for a dry grinder.

I will post progress reports.

Ken



« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 10:23:36 pm by Ken S »

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 04:23:10 am »
Ken,

Let me make you a single aluminum bushing like mine.  I’ll try to get it done this weekend or next.

Kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tested a New Roughing Stone
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2019, 10:38:24 am »
Thank you, Rich. That would be most appreciated.
Ken

Rich,

Your finding this 46 grit ten inch wheel will prove most valuable for many of us. Tormek has never offered a coarse wheel. As a result of this, combined with the 90 RPM speed, the Tormek has the reputation of being slooooow. Using a well fitted 46 grit wheel alone will not make the Tormek a speedster, however, it transforms the grinding speed from painfully slow to moderately slow. In musical terms that's like going from largisimo to andante. For anyone with more than a modicum of patience, that's a reshaping in a couple minutes rather than a frustrating half hour.

In the past, I have questioned the cost effectiveness of a three hundred CBN or diamond wheel for an occasional tool reshaping or other heavy project. I think either this ten inch wheel or a Norton 3X wheel in eight inch is a game changer. (Unfortunately, Norton only manufactures the 3X wheels in six and eight inch.)

Good job, Rich!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 11:56:50 am by Ken S »