Author Topic: Tormek T4  (Read 1066 times)

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2019, 11:53:25 am »
Even, you are correct. Unless you only use diamond and/or CBN wheels, every Tormek, including the T4 needs a TT-50 Truing Tool. Even chisels and kitchen knives will eventually wear an SG grinding wheel out of true. I am convinced that Tormek designed the T4 package around a price point, to sell at $400 US or equivalent. Including the essential TT-50 would have added almost an extra $100 to the package cost.

Please do not misunderstand me. The T4 is a very well designed and manufactured machine; it is just not a machine which should be sold at $400. That is why I encourage prospective buyers to forget the price difference and decide on the intended work.

I emailed Wootz (Vadim at Knife Grinders) regarding a source for the 80 grit diamond plates. He sent me a link to the item on ebay Australia. I found the same item on ebay US yesterday, although they were out of stock. I checked back this morning and found that the 80 grit plates were available. I ordered two. Here is the link in Australia:


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diamond-Plate-Stone-Knife-Blade-Sharpening-Whetstone-Polishing-Sharpener-60-3000/371947163036?hash=item5699c74d9c:m:mvZnN0ElE3gANdvGP-7OAHQ&frcectupt=true

Here is the US link:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/292421859240


Please note that the following is my opinion. Many years ago, Tormek switched from natural stones mined on a Swedish island to a man made aluminum oxide stone, the SG still in use. The SG is more coarse than the natural stone. That is both a blessing and a curse. The coarser SG cuts more quickly, however, it would not leave as smooth a finish. Some clever person at Tormek realized that a double sided silicon carbide stone could regrade the SG finer. The coarse side could almost restore the coarser grit.

Whether the stone grader was specifically designed for the task or a standard hardware store item, it did the job of making the SG finer.

The SB and SJ wheels were introduced almost ten years ago. In the last ten years, diamond plates have been introduced for dressing Tormek wheels. These advances have largely happened on this forum by two notable pioneers: Ionut, who has unfortunately moved on to other interests; and Wootz (Vadim of Knife Grinders). Fortunately, Wootz is an active poster and responsible for many of the recent refinements in knife sharpening.

In my ten years as a Tormek user, I have been impressed with the many truly remarkable innovations from Tormek. Borrowing a quote from the Americas cup racing, "There is no second place." Tormek is the world leader in wet grinder sharpening. However, with all of the advancements, there is still room to improve. I put the stone grader in the awaiting improvement category. I also put the SB and SJ in the category of having untapped potential. I hope we will someday unlock that potential.

Ken

EDIT: The ebay seller advised me that the 80 grit is out of stock. He does not know when they will be available again. I asked him to advise me when the 80 grit is available. In the meantime, I have ordered a double sided 150-600 grit plate. I will test it and post my results. Stay tuned.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 12:57:51 pm by Ken S »

Offline dusmif

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2019, 03:51:06 pm »
Thank you Ken for youtr advice, inforamation and time to reply.
Alf

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2019, 04:02:21 pm »
When I was looking to by a Tormek I went through a similar thought process and after adding up everything I went with the T8. I am pleased with my decision.

In addition to this forum here are some sites  I have bookmarked. I find them invaluable as a reference:

http://knifegrinders.com.au/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrs9DEOG9tHbxAH50CKINqA

http://www.sharpeninghandbook.info/

The DVD supplied with the T8 is a great place to start. You will learn the fundamentals of sharpening from the experts. You can produce an extremely sharp edge with just the standard wheel and leather hone. I would suggest becoming skilled with this combination before adding the extras.




Offline dusmif

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2019, 04:06:59 pm »
When I was looking to by a Tormek I went through a similar thought process and after adding up everything I went with the T8. I am pleased with my decision.

In addition to this forum here are some sites  I have bookmarked. I find them invaluable as a reference:

http://knifegrinders.com.au/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrs9DEOG9tHbxAH50CKINqA

http://www.sharpeninghandbook.info/

The DVD supplied with the T8 is a great place to start. You will learn the fundamentals of sharpening from the experts. You can produce an extremely sharp edge with just the standard wheel and leather hone. I would suggest becoming skilled with this combination before adding the extras.

Thank you John for your help and links, which I will look into for sure.

Offline dusmif

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 05:24:07 pm »
Final it arrived.
Do I need to check or give any oil to the machine before I start please?
Alf
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:28:41 pm by dusmif »

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 07:15:14 pm »
Final it arrived.
Do I need to check or give any oil to the machine before I start please?
Alf

Before you start you need to oil the leather wheel in accordance with the Tormek instructions and add your first bit of honing compound. Then add water to the tray and you are ready to start sharpening. I started by sharpening some cheap kitchen knives I have for camping. You will be amazed how fast your confidence grows and how what you hear in the videos makes sense. The Tormek videos are a great start and I followed them for some time before I began trying additional products such as the FVB.

Offline dusmif

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 08:34:56 pm »
Final it arrived.
Do I need to check or give any oil to the machine before I start please?
Alf

Before you start you need to oil the leather wheel in accordance with the Tormek instructions and add your first bit of honing compound. Then add water to the tray and you are ready to start sharpening. I started by sharpening some cheap kitchen knives I have for camping. You will be amazed how fast your confidence grows and how what you hear in the videos makes sense. The Tormek videos are a great start and I followed them for some time before I began trying additional products such as the FVB.
Thank You John,much appreciated.
So the shaft does not need any lubrication before first star?
Alf

Offline Antz

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2019, 09:35:19 pm »
Dusmif,

When I first got mine there was no lubrication needed for the shaft. As John said just oil the leather wheel and apply a generous amount of compound and even it out with something flat like a chisel or side of a butter knife. On mine anyway I had to use more oil on the leather than the recommended 2/3 tube, I had to use almost the whole tube.

Antz

PS: don’t throw away the shipping sleeve that came on the shaft! You’ll need it if you want to run the machine without the stone and just the leather wheel. Just remove the stone and put the sleeve back on and tighten the eze lock. It’ll keep the shaft from shifting. Trust me I learned the hard way.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:40:51 pm by Antz »
“But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
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Offline dusmif

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2019, 08:07:07 am »
Thank You Antz, that was very helpfull.
Alf.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2019, 01:21:19 pm »
Antz makes a very good point about saving the grinding wheel spacer (shipping sleeve). If you did not keep it, a very adequate substituts spacer can be quickly made from a short piece of plastic pipe, tubing or a dowel with a hole drilled through it. Add my name to those who learned this the hard way.

Ken

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2019, 05:38:53 pm »
Adding white lithium grease to the shaft bushings is a good idea.
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You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2019, 09:30:51 pm »
I agree, Rich. I keep a small tube of white lithium grease with my Tormek kit. (A small tube will more than outlast me.)

Ken

Offline schipperke

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2019, 05:36:13 pm »
As a person that used a Baldor Bench Lathe 12 hrs a day for ~25 years,  the 30 minute per hour really puzzles me for a $400+ setup.  What I find strange on the T-4 (maybe the 8 is same?) is the Stone wheel shaft just uses plastic bearings.  Why no roller bearings?  At the 120 RPM , they'd last indefinitely most likely.  Would be a interesting modification, has anyone done it?

Offline Roger M.

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2019, 06:25:38 pm »
My understanding is that the rated "use time" of 30 minutes each hour is no longer relevant to the new model of the T4.
The older T4's had plastic cases that were susceptible to heat issues, whereas the current ones have a cast zinc housing that is impervious to the heat generated by the motor and works.

The rating would obviously still apply to the older T4's, but does not apply to the new ones with the zinc case.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek T4
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2019, 12:17:04 pm »
I wish Tormek Marketing would update the handbook and website about this thirty minute situation. I have read every post on this forum for the past ten years. I do not recall a single post where the poster overheated a T4 motor. In fact, I spent a day with the Tormek demonstrators at a woodworking show several years ago. They were running a T7 and a T4 essentially continuously all day. Throughout the day, I placed my hand on the zinc top of the T4. It was barely warm, certainly not hot.

The predecessors of the T4 were the T3 and the T1200. They both had all plastic housings. I have been told that the all plastic housings retained heat and that with prolonged use, it was possible for the housing to melt. I have not seen any posts or other documentation to confirm this, although it seems a logical possibility. My 2009 handbook only lists the T1200 with a European 240 Volt 50 Hertz motor. The T3 was not widely marketed in the US. This forum was founded by the US Tormek agent. The "Tormek" was the larger SuperGrind and T7 on the forum back then.

Beginning in 2014, the introduction of the T4 changed that. The all plastic housing of the T3 was totally redesigned to include the machined zinc top. The marketing claim was a “300% increase in accuracy". While I do not understand the math involved, I do not doubt the claim. The entire top, including the four sleeves for the support bar, is all one precision machined piece. It is a true advancement in several ways. Tormek later used this zinc housing idea with the present flagship T8 model. It is the main difference between the T7 and the T8. It also acts as a radiator, helping to cool the motor, thus solving the thirty minute "problem".

Some may protest that the T4 motor is not listed for continuous duty. This is technically correct. The blower motor on my home furnace is rated continuous duty. It is set to run 24/7 all year long to keep the air circulating. How many of us, even in our wildest "busy professional sharpening service" dreams would leave the Tormek running all night or even during lunch?

I do not know a reasonable continuous run time limit for the T4. I do know that it is much longer than thirty minutes. I also know that I will need a break long before my T4 needs one.

Ken