Author Topic: General Concern  (Read 3117 times)

Offline ega

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2020, 07:43:28 pm »
Ken S:
Thank you for your good offices.
BTW, I hope that whatever it was that took you to ER (see above) is now just a memory.

Offline Ken S

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2020, 11:17:36 pm »
Ega,

Thank you for the good wishes. You and I are still both active on the forum since 2009.

As part of my self study, I watch many you tubes which might not seem Tormek specific. I found this sharpening video today by Frank Klausz, a highly respected woodworker. He sharpens with waterstones, however, I noticed that he uses the same wooden water trough for all of his stones, without worrying about changing the water. He is a very skilled, dedicated woodworker and sharpener. If he felt that cross contamination was a real concern, I am certain that he would have used separate water troughs. Theoretically, it makes sense to use separate water. In the working world, it may not really make any difference. Here is the link:

https://youtu.be/pAR9fyXV8go

Ken

Offline ega

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2020, 12:25:21 pm »
Ken S
Thank you for the Frank Klausz link - seemingly a lovely man, at peace with the world. I don't use my water stones much these days, but for someone who does, the pond plus rotatable triple holder is obviously a good idea. The same goes for no-jig sharpening.
I look forward to hearing from Sébastien.
Another point that occurred to me arises from the discussion one sees about the danger when grinding steel with diamond of the heat generated converting the precious coating to base carbon. I imagine that the slow speed of the Tormek doesn't permit this even when used dry. The stated maximum RPM for the Tormek wheel is 150 although I believe the actual speed is 90 (possibly dependent on mains frequency).

Offline ega

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2020, 12:11:12 pm »
A couple more points:
The diamond wheel is said to be suitable for all materials. Thinking of the old-style brazed carbide lathe tool, would the wheel suffer from coming into contact with the soft braze metal sandwiched between the carbide and the alloy steel body? (Same point, of course, for brazed HSS.
If dilute concentrate evaporates does this increase the percentage of concentrate in the liquid and could this be measured by a hygrometer (as used for battery acid) or similar?

Offline RickKrung

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2020, 03:52:23 pm »
My sense is the very small amount of braze material in the joint between the holder and carbide will not be a problem.  That type of tool has been around for a long time and I've never heard of any issues.  I would NOT attempt to sharpen any brazing rod or similar soft metal with a diamond wheel/stone, however, as that involves quite a bit more material. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Sebastien

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2020, 09:01:12 am »
Short of starting a new thread, this one seems the most recent and appropriate place to ask some questions arising from my recent investment in a DF-250.
When unpacking the wheel I noticed what looked like traces of rust in the bore and, having cleaned it, decided to grease the spindle. This prompted me to wonder whether the wheel could be made of stainless material. I realize that the requirements of the electroplating process may preclude this but if practical it would certainly make life simpler (and cheaper - Chanel No 5 comes to mind when contemplating the concentrate).
The instructions for the ACC-150 say to mix it with water before filling the trough; is this so that the two can be physically stirred? When I made up the dilute concentrate I thought I detected a very faint blue tinge in the water and, after stirring, a white cloudy effect. What is this and would distilled water be preferable to tap water (I live in a hard water area)?
I have taken note of Sébastien's very helpful post above and assume that, albeit a Newbie, he is the Sébastien from Tormek.
I note that a smell indicates the need to change the concentrate; assuming that I retain my sense of smell Covid notwithstanding, what sort of smell should I be trying to detect?

Hi everyone, first of all my apologizes for my tardive answer. I will try to answer your questions as well as I can.

The reason why we use a steel core (that can rust) on our diamond wheels and not an aluminum core is that the diamond plating process with aluminum is not environmentally friendly at all. Therefore, we have chosen the steal core. A good tip would be to grease the bore of the wheel with the same grease that you used to grease the spindle to avoid rust there.   

Regarding which water to use with the ACC-150 tap water is just fine and the two can be physically stirred.

When it comes to the smell I would say that as long you can stand the smell of it the diamond wheels can stand it as well:) So just keep going until you find the smell being unpleasant for your own wellbeing.

Stay sharp/

Sébastien
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 09:14:15 am by Sebastien »

Offline ega

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2020, 04:02:03 pm »
Sébastien
Many thanks for your advice; it is always good to get a tip "from the horse's mouth" and I am glad to hear that the environment is high on your agenda!
Incidentally, one advantage of the aluminium core would be its lighter weight when it comes to high speed grinding where some conventional grinders struggle to get the heavier wheels up to speed (not a problem for the Tormek, of course).
Have you anything to add on my later post already helpfully commented by Rick Krung, please?

Offline Sebastien

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2020, 11:49:58 am »
Hi Ega,

Just as Rick said in his post it is a so small amount of braze material so there is no problem at all. Also, the RPM on the Tormek is low which makes it even less of problem.

/ Sébastien

Offline Ken S

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2020, 03:44:56 pm »
Ega,
This topic brings to mind several thoughts. No criticism of you is intended. The comment about heat changing diamond is an example of something which is factual, but not relevant. I would have concerns about using diamond wheels with high speed (or half speed) dry grinders. However, with a water cooled low speed grinder like the Tormek, I don't consider it relevant.

Also, I think we sometimes overthink things. While I do not want to condone sloppy practices, I think siphoning ACC with a turkey baster seems to remove enough contaminates. We are sharpening tools and knives, not doing laboratory research.

Ken

Offline ega

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2020, 05:37:16 pm »
Ken S:
As moderator you are, of course, the arbiter of relevance.
However, the title of the thread is "General Concern" and, having both a Tormek diamond wheel and modestly high-speed ditto, I am interested in which is the better one to use for a given job; the posts commenting on my point were helpful to me if to no one else.

Offline Ken S

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2020, 02:03:52 am »
Ega,

I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intention; nor did I intend to imply that your posts are not relevant.
For the record, although I happen to be the forum moderator, I act as moderator as little as possible, preferring to post as a regular member. I have never thought of myself as the "arbiter of relevance".

My use of the word "relevant" was poorly chosen. The side effect of diamond changing to carbon at high temperature has been mentioned from time to time as a reason to choose CBN instead of diamond wheels. On the surface, this might seem like a valid point. With a higher speed dry grinder, it would be a game changer. It is a good question, and should be addressed. I should have said that with the water cooled, low wheel speed of the Tormek, overheating is not a problem. The question deserved a non critical, factual answer, not one which inadvertently implied that it should not be asked. Incidentally, I use both diamond and CBN wheels. They both work, as does the SG that I use most of the time.

For the record, on the rare occasions when I feel compelled to moderate, I prefer to do it diplomatically through a private message. Over the years, I have requested that a couple members clean up their language. I have also encouraged a few members to limit commercial activity on the forum. Mixed in with this, I have received occasional constructive emails from members with less than glowing comments about my moderating. I take these very seriously.

Keep on posting.

Ken

Offline ega

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2020, 12:19:22 pm »
Ken S

None taken whatsoever! You are the most moderate of moderators.

As a very occasional poster I am conscious that I may not yet have acquired a complete feel for the forum's etiquette and ethos but I thought it worth explaining the background to my post.

Offline Ken S

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Re: General Concern
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2020, 05:24:03 pm »
Ega,

I'm glad you did. Sometimes my psychic super radar is a bit out of synche.

Ken