Author Topic: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over  (Read 615 times)

Offline Rick_B

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Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« on: October 12, 2019, 09:32:19 pm »
Good afternoon folks - I've been lurking for quite awhile but now I need some help.  I keep seeing references about jig and wheel updates that are very confusing to me.  I have a Supergrind 2000 that was purchased many years ago (15 or 20) and over the years I have used it very little but have done some updating.  I am now ready to reacquaint myself with the tool.  I would like to start by showing what I have and getting some suggestions on potential beneficial upgrades.

My sharpening is/will be limited to chisels, turning tools and drill bits.  As I said I have a Supergrind 2000.  I have an SG 250 Aluminum Oxide wheel that is currently at roughly 220 mm.  I also have the leather honing wheel and the profile honing wheel, an upgraded water trough and a swivel base.  Is there anything on the basic machine that could be upgraded.  I have some concern about the wheel size and type.  Is 220 getting too small?  Should I be considering a different type wheel for the sharpening I will be doing?

I have a maintenance kit, a used and new grading stone (used on right in the picture below - not sure it is useable any longer - its pretty misshapen).

For straight edge tools I have the universal support and two SE 76 straight edge jigs - not sure I am completely up to date with these.

See the next post for a few more items

Rick



« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 09:46:00 pm by Rick_B »

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2019, 09:51:48 pm »
A couple of other things for now - a WM 200 angle finder and TT 50 truing tool.  finally I found what appears to be a truing tool point but it may not be Tormek related?

I'm calling this group of items the basic machine and edge tool group.  I think I'm current on everything in this group but perhaps the wheel and TT-50 but I'll let you folks tell me that  :)

I do have turning tool and drill bit jigs - I'll hold off on those until the basic machine and edge tool group is resolved.

Thanks
Rick

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2019, 10:09:46 pm »
I have that exact same machine.  Love it!

The new shaft with EZ off nut is a worthwhile investment.

Kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2019, 01:33:34 am »
Rick,

As you probably already know, I have several Tormeks, and no complaints. In a sense, they don't match the rest of my tools. Many of my tools predate me (1950 vintage). Part of me thinks a well worn SuperGrind should have been my Tormek. At this point, getting a SuperGrind is not practical for me. I am pleased you will be putting your SuperGrind to good service.

Follow Rich's advice. Rich and I are friends and both live in Columbus, Ohio. I have watched him work with his venerable SuperGrind. A T8 can not do anything Rich and his SuperGrind can't do. I agree with Rich that you have already added the essential upgrades. I would also second Rich's recommendation that the EZYlock is a worthwhile investment. I would interject the word "very". I started with an original shaft. I would not want to be without the EZYlock now.

Enjoy your SuperGrind. Keep posting!

Ken

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2019, 04:27:19 pm »
Thanks Rich and Ken for the encouragement.  I may have tried to cover too much at once so let me step back and ask
1.  Is my wheel too small at 220 mm?
2.  Is the SG wheel appropriate for chisels/turning tools/drill bits?
3.  Is the univwrsal support bar at the current revision level?

More to  come

Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2019, 04:55:06 pm »
Rick,
Your wheel should be good to about 180 to 200mm. You have plenty of life left in it.
The SG is designed for chisels, plane blades, etc. It may not be the ideal choice for hss turning tools. The SB is designed for them. However, Tormekers were sharpening their turning tools for almost forty years before the SB was introduced.
Your universal support bar has the current microadjust nut and threads. It is the latest version.
Ken

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2019, 09:28:31 pm »
Thanks Ken - that's good information.  The whole line of Tormek wheels is confusng to me but given my expected sharpening needs it sounds like the SG will serve me - even if I need to replace it.  You probably figured out that I am not a big user and don't anticipate that to chnage much.  ]y plan is to get proficient with edge tools, turning tools and drill bits so that when the need arises I have the skills to sharpen my tools.

I should have mentioned that I am trying to see where I can upgrade because there is a wood working show of sorts coming up near me (NC) and there is supposed to be a Tormek rep there - usually there is a show discount.  I'm not looking to spend money just to spend it so a new wheel is likely not going to be on my list - unless there is a screaming deal  :)  The stainless shaft and EZY lock nut is definitely on my list.

So it seems the next question is the truing tool.  I have read many times on this forum that there are several versions of the TT-50 - I'm pretty sure the one i have ( picture above) is not the latest.  Will I experience a significant leap in functionality by upgrading the TT-50 to the latest version.  Secondly how can I tell if the diamond cluster in my current TT-50 should be replaced?

Thanks
Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2019, 11:06:47 pm »
Rick,

One thing I would definitely put on your show purchase list is the TNT-300. I consider this the best video Tormek has made so far. There are two parts, sharpening and using the turning tools. It was made by Jeff Farris (using a SuperGrind). In addition to being one of the most experienced Tormek users on the planet, Jeff is also a very skilled turner. I consider this a "must have" for Tormek woodturners. Here is a link:

https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/accessories/other-accessories/tnt-300-woodturners-instruction-box/

I would put the MSK-250 EZYlock kit on your list.

I have both versions of the TT-50. The old version is good enough (if you encounter any chatter, it is easily corrected with electrical ties). The new version is better. If your budget permits, I think I would include it on your list. Roughly half the cost of the TT-50 is for the diamond cluster. A new TT-50 would take care of both possible problems.

The unadvertised discount is usually 20% on accessories and 10% on the Tormek itself. Woodworking shows are usually at least annually, so, if you miss a discount this year, you can catch the next street car.

The TNzt-300, EZYlock, and TT-50 should get you up and running.

Keep us posted.

Ken

Make sure you study the new TT-50 on tormek.com. I would expect a show to only handlethe new model; just make sure you know the difference.

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2019, 11:37:38 pm »
Rick,

Here’s the summary of grindstones I compiled : 

http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Grindstones.html

Kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2019, 03:49:23 pm »
Rick,

One thing I would definitely put on your show purchase list is the TNT-300. I consider this the best video Tormek has made so far. There are two parts, sharpening and using the turning tools. It was made by Jeff Farris (using a SuperGrind). In addition to being one of the most experienced Tormek users on the planet, Jeff is also a very skilled turner. I consider this a "must have" for Tormek woodturners. Here is a link:

https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/accessories/other-accessories/tnt-300-woodturners-instruction-box/

I would put the MSK-250 EZYlock kit on your list.

I have both versions of the TT-50. The old version is good enough (if you encounter any chatter, it is easily corrected with electrical ties). The new version is better. If your budget permits, I think I would include it on your list. Roughly half the cost of the TT-50 is for the diamond cluster. A new TT-50 would take care of both possible problems.

The unadvertised discount is usually 20% on accessories and 10% on the Tormek itself. Woodworking shows are usually at least annually, so, if you miss a discount this year, you can catch the next street car.

The TNzt-300, EZYlock, and TT-50 should get you up and running.

Keep us posted.

Ken

Make sure you study the new TT-50 on tormek.com. I would expect a show to only handlethe new model; just make sure you know the difference.

There are also videos by Jeff on You Tube on sharpening specific tools.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SharpToolsUSA

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2019, 05:09:48 pm »
Great information so far - Rich that is an excellent summary for grind stones.  My take away is that the SG-250 is a general use all around stone that can be used for HSS (at least according to the Tormek site) and that the SB-250 is more specifically for HSS turning tools.  Based on this the SG-250 is the right stone for me unless my volume of turning increases.  Does that sound right?

Ken - I am aware of Jeff - in fact I originally bought my supergrind from him at a show.  He definitely has some skills.  I hadn`t mentioned before that I also have the wood turners kit and the DBS-22 drill bit jig.  Part of the wood turners kit was Jeff`s video so I`m good to go with that.

Looking at the new TT-50 on the Tormek site - it seems the main difference is the way the diamond carrier interfaces with the universal support.  On mine there is a whole in the carrier through which the univeresal support passes while on the new version it appears there is a fork of sorts which rides along the universal support.  I`m sure there are other differences that I am not seeing.  My plan is to take my TT-50 to the show and have the rep show me the differences.

A few more questions - I have the SE-76 square edge jig and I noticed that there is a newer version (SE-77).  The primary difference seems to be some functionality for adjustment of squareness.  I have had some problems in the past with narrower chisels so I`m thinking maybe this would be a good upgrade but am looking for opinions.

The other upgraded version I was able to identify was the SVD-185 gouge jig which has been replaced by the SVD-186.  I`m not sure what the differences are.  Mine did come with the shaft for turning tool insert cutters (I thought this was one of the differences between the 185 and 186) but my instructions are for the 185?  Is the SVD-186 enough of an upgrade to consider?

I don't think there are any other upgrades in the turners tool kit or the DBS-22 but feel free to chime in if I missed something.

So here is my list for the show in order of priority from most likely to unlikely
TT-50 2019 truing tool
SE-77 Square edge jig
MSK-250 Shaft Kit (not sure I need this if not changing wheels frequently)
SVD-186 gouge jig
SG250 wheel

Thanks for your thoughts
Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2019, 05:21:43 pm »
Rick,
The SVD-186 is a substantial improvement over the 185. In my review, I recommend it even for those who are already using the 185. Don't take my word for it; Glenn Lucas sings its praises in one of his newer DVDs. It should be on your list.

The SE-77 is very useful if you are sharpening bench plane blades with camber. It's also nice for adjusting for square with chisels.

Ken

ps I did not mean to ignore Jeff's you tubes. I did not include them for your purchase list because they are free. We have all learned from them.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 05:23:21 pm by Ken S »

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2019, 02:00:52 am »
Rick,

The SB-250 is good for all tools with harder steels.  Many knife sharpeners use it also. 

But you are right, the SG grindstone works well.

Kind regards,
Rich 
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2019, 04:43:41 pm »
Given Ken's and others comments above I'm rethinking my purchase list - basically switching the SVD-186 with the MKS-250 shaft kit.  The first three items come to $264 plus tax.  The shaft kit is another $70.  these prices are assuming there is no show discount.

So let me be the devil's advocate - I disassemble the shaft and was surprised at the lack of corrosion - probably reflects my lack of use  :).  The worst area was right at the end of the threaded section on the wheel side (1st picture below).  The shaft did not want to come out of the wheel so I had to use an arbor press to separate them.  After getting them apart I noticed that on both sides of the wheel where the shaft hole is there was some breakage - I'm not sure if I did that or it is normal (see pictures two and three).  In any event the washers on both sides are supported by good wheel surface.

So my questions are 1) is the damage on the wheel at the shaft hole OK to use as is? and 2) Devils advocate - Why would I invest in a replacement shaft if I am not going to be changing wheels?  Wouldn't periodic lubrication with a lithium grease prevent the corrosion?  and if not changing wheels what advantage does the EXY-lock system give me?

Thanks

Rick

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Tormek Supergrind - Starting Over
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2019, 01:18:02 am »
Rick,

You have a great point.  I bought my Tormek 2000 in December 2002, and only replaced the shaft in June 2016.  With only one grindstone, it is less critical; however you should consider one at a later date.  It is definitely worthwhile when you have more than one grindstone.

And I can honestly tell you that the investment in the SVD-186 has much greater value than the new shaft change.  For the wood turner, the SVD-186 is a significant leap forward from the -185.  And, you can re-purpose the -185 for sharpening carbide bits.  I do that for my hollowing tool.

Oh, and as for the wheel damage, don't worry about that.  Once you put the grindstone in place and true it, you won't even know there was any damage.

Good luck,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.