Author Topic: Sharpening Turning Tools  (Read 1959 times)

Offline AKMike

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2019, 01:20:48 am »
If you need to reshape, use your high speed grinder setup, unless you have a lot of spare time. If you know your gouge is high speed steel, grind away, but if you're not sure, grind lightly and cool the steel frequently. If your high speed grinder has CBN or diamond wheels and you aren't sure what kind of steel is in the gouge, don't use the high speed grinder.

Mike

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2019, 05:00:05 pm »
I was able to get the gouge reshaped to the tormek recommended settings of JS 2, Protrusion 55 and hole b for the USB.  It was slow so I used my slow speed dry bench grinder with AO wheels.  That worked but it requried lots of starting and stopping to colld the chisel - maybe there is a way to cool it with water without having to take the jig off the USB.  It was definitely faster than the tormek wheel.  I finished up the shaping on the tormek and then sharpened and honed.  There is no indication on the buck brothers chisel if it is high carbon or HSS and I bought them used many years ago so I donLt know the age of it.

So now I need to replicate a Doug Thompson grind on the Tormek.  Based on his website he uses a wolverine jig and the nose angle is 40 degrees.  I couldn't find any "standard" tormek recommended grinds that produced these results.  I did find that a JS of 4, Protrusion of 55 and using hole b to set the USB I could visually replicate the bevel.  Then I was able to verify, using the bele coloring method, that the color was removed uniformly from the entire length of the bevel.  So do these setting make sense - I don't want to start grinding and ruon the chisel.  BTW - This is a 3/8" detail spindle gouge.  I also have  a 3/8" thompson spindle gouge - not sure of the difference.  It appears to me that the detail gouge has longer wings which I think is the result of how far the chisel is turned when grinding?

Thanks
Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2019, 06:19:33 pm »
Rick,

Here is a link to Doug Thompson's website. I purchased one of his detail gouges and a handle. He is quite knowledgeable and a nice guy. Contact him if you have any questions about your Thompson tools.

http://thompsonlathetools.com/

Ken

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2019, 08:53:25 pm »
I agree Ken - Doug is very knowledgeable and helpful.  Based on his website he is a proponent of the wolverine vari jig so I'm not sure he could offer any advice on how toreplicate his grind with a Tormek.  I am however, going to ask him that question.

What settings do you use on your thompson detail gouge - something completely different than the as received grind?

Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2019, 11:59:53 pm »
You are correct; Doug uses the vari grind. In my sharpening research, I often consult knowledgeable sharpening sources who use equipment other than Tormek. Like you, I respect Doug's extensive knowledge.

My Thompson detail gouge was designed by the late King Heiple. I met King at a Conover Workshop. I purchased the detail gouge several years ago, but have only recently set up my lathe. It cuts very well. I have not used it enough to sharpen it.

When I describe myself as a beginning turner, I am not just being modest.

Ken

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2019, 12:08:31 am »
Sounds like we are in the same boat :)

So when your detail gouge needs sharpening what would your approach be if using a Tormek.  Maybe its too soon for you to answer that bdepending on whether you like the existing grind pr would want to change it.

Rick

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2019, 03:44:43 am »
There are many 'custom' grinds doing the rounds, some are a great improvement on the ones we have been using Elsworth, Fingernail, negative rake, all are fairly new and have made improvements, though talk to some of the old style turners and they will not be using these new fangled weird profiles!

By virtue of the fact every pro turner is hand grinding to speed up / improve the flow on the jobs they are turning out and will every now and then come up with a profile that gets shared around or incorporated into a production tool, the jig makers will always be chasing the latest fashion profiles.

When my tools are worn down to the nub, I get adventurous and hand sharpen them to some very strange angles, or replicate the latest fashion profiles, then IF I like the way they cut I see if I can get close to a recipe using the jigs I have. Some are part jig part freehand, others we want the jig makers official or otherwise to get cracking and invent something for us.

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2019, 09:27:36 pm »
I gotten through gouges, skews and parting tools.  Are they perfect - no far from it but they are better than they were.  I still need to do a couple of round nose scrapes and decide what I am going to do t=wit the Thompson tools I have.

Here's a tool that I don't know the name of - anybody seen something like this?  Its probably something pretty common to most


Thanks
Rick

Offline AKMike

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2019, 11:36:38 pm »
I have a tool like that that is ground to match the angle of the dovetail jaws of my chucks. Makes it easy to put the proper tenon on a woodturning piece. If you use it for that, cut with one edge at a time. If you try to cut with both edges at once, you are risking a catch.

Mike

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2019, 12:03:14 am »
Could be a miss-ground skew, but it looks like a wide parting tool,  45° instead of the more usual 25°, if it is surplus to requirements then Mike's suggestion is excellent, I have one it comes in very handy.  Though I would take the bevels to 30° or less before skewing it for the dovetail, much easier to maintain.

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2019, 03:58:16 pm »
Rick,

It’s called a Spear Point tool.  It is a scraper, & Mike’s use is quite common. 

Sharpening instructions are at http://www.sharpeninghandbook.info/WW-SpearPoint.html

Kind regards,
Rich
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 03:59:48 pm by RichColvin »
---------------------------
Rich Colvin
www.SharpeningHandbook.info - a reference guide for sharpening
www.OTBoK.info - help those getting started in ornamental turning -- to make that journey easier.

You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2019, 04:25:54 pm »
Thanks guys - I'm not anticipating any use in the immediate future so I think I will let it go as is for now.

Rick

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2019, 04:40:32 pm »
So after about 8 turning tools and a dozen or so chisels I feel like I accomplished my original goal refamiliarizing myself with Tormek sharpening.  A couple of areas that still need refinement
1.  It seems that using the regrading stone MAY be causing the stone to get to the point of needing truing much faster.  Is this my imagination or perhaps a technique issue.
2.  When truing - I have noticed that the wheel seems to be humped in the middle - that is the high spot is in the middle.  It generally takes 3 or 4 passes, advancing the micro adjust 1/3 of a number at a time to get contact across the entire width.  I have also noticed that the wheel seems out of round whenever I true it - that is you can hear intermittent contact when initally truing until a few passes are completed.  I have used the zip tie modification to avoid any up/down movement of the diamond carrier.
3.  I have noticed the grading stone gets dished - when is it no longer useable?  Dishing is occurring pretty rapidly - a new stone has evidence of dishing after about 10 uses

So what, if anything, am I doing wrong?

Thanks
Rick

Offline Ken S

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2019, 07:58:05 pm »
Rick,

I have not found Tormek to be very clear on these issues. The following are my observations:

1) I think the stone grader concept is a great idea. I think the original idea was to modify the new SG-250 wheel to be able to cut like the finer grit natural stones mined locally. I suspect that you are correct in thinking that a worn stone grader will cause the grinding wheel to need more frequent truing. I look at stone graders the same way I look at grinding wheels, as long term consumables which will eventually need to be replaced. this is not something any company's marketing department wants to emphasize.

2)The hump or valley may depend on which tools you are sharpening. A gouge may place a valley in the center. Keep going with light controlled passes to keep your wheel true.

3) Several of us have been trying diamond stones for grading. I think that is the direction we will be heading, especially with the SB.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong; the right path keeps evolving.

Ken

Offline Rick_B

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Re: Sharpening Turning Tools
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2019, 03:06:51 pm »
Rick,

I have not found Tormek to be very clear on these issues. The following are my observations:

1) I think the stone grader concept is a great idea. I think the original idea was to modify the new SG-250 wheel to be able to cut like the finer grit natural stones mined locally. I suspect that you are correct in thinking that a worn stone grader will cause the grinding wheel to need more frequent truing. I look at stone graders the same way I look at grinding wheels, as long term consumables which will eventually need to be replaced. this is not something any company's marketing department wants to emphasize.

2)The hump or valley may depend on which tools you are sharpening. A gouge may place a valley in the center. Keep going with light controlled passes to keep your wheel true.

3) Several of us have been trying diamond stones for grading. I think that is the direction we will be heading, especially with the SB.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong; the right path keeps evolving.

Ken

Ken - my concern with #1 above is that the grading stone seems to show wear (dishing) almost immediately - is that typical or is somethng wrong.  When watching videos - it appears to be such an easy task butt Ilm starting to wonder if it is all marketing hype?

The secnd concern I have is the suspected stone out of roundness.  This seems evident as the truing is being done - based on sound - it appears initialy that there is contact/no contact as the wheel rotates.  I'm wondering if this may be related to some other problem - drive shaft or bearings.  I can't feel any up/down movement of the wheel.

Rick