Author Topic: Happy tormek day!  (Read 1863 times)

Offline kenc295

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Happy tormek day!
« on: November 30, 2019, 11:11:05 pm »
Ooooh, look what arrived today.   :)
I'm not that much of a turner - not at all! - really bought this to help with sharpening moulding planes. 


Offline kenc295

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2019, 01:48:11 am »
Nice setup, the only disappointment is the profile honing wheels really accentuate the drive wheel/honing wheel wobble I've always tolerated on my T7. 

Offline Ken S

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2019, 02:28:34 am »
Ken,
Happy Tormek Day to you! I had the components of the turner's kit long before I had my lathe set up. I think you will also find non turning uses for your new jigs and accessories. (The TNT-100 was the ancestor of the kenjig.)

Regarding your wheel wobble, have you contacted support about it? (support@tormek.se)

Ken

Offline kenc295

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2019, 03:00:05 am »
Hi Ken,

Thanks, it wasn't cheap but promises a lot of functionality. Now if only Tormek could figure out how to sharpen Hollows and  complex moulding planes!

Now that I've finally retired, I am thinking I'll actually have the time to do some woodworking, I've always been short of time and long on hobbies.

No, I haven't contacted support. My T7 has seen little use, but must be at least 7 or 8 years old now even though it looks like new.  I always thought the honing wheel wobble was just how it was.  The grinding stone runs beautifully true so it never really bothered me too much.  Is it worth calling them when the unit is this old? It sure looks a lot worse with the profile honing wheels assembly hung off the end! 
There's about a 1mm runout on the drive wheel rim.

ken

Offline Ken S

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2019, 04:18:06 am »
Hi, Ken.

Yes, I think it is worth contacting support, whether or not your T7 is still under warranty or not. Incidentally, Tormek offered the longest warranty of any model with (only) the T7. It is the "7+3”, the normal seven years plus three more.

Support handles much more than warranty work. I don't know what acceptable run out tolerance is for the leather honing wheel. I also don't really know how much of a real world problem it is, or if it can be minimized with simple steps. Support is our best source of information for these problems. Incidentally, there is no charge for using Tormek support. I use them often. They frequently make suggestions which would not occur to me.

Guve them a try.

Ken

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2019, 01:29:01 pm »
Seems to me that if the stone runs true then there is a defect in the leather honing wheel mount and not in the shaft. May I suggest simply loosening the leather wheel and rotating it on the shaft in 1/8 turns and retightening. See if you can find a sweet spot. Make a mark on the wheel with something so that you can gauge the rotation that you put on it.
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2019, 07:04:31 pm »
Seems to me that if the stone runs true then there is a defect in the leather honing wheel mount and not in the shaft. May I suggest simply loosening the leather wheel and rotating it on the shaft in 1/8 turns and retightening. See if you can find a sweet spot. Make a mark on the wheel with something so that you can gauge the rotation that you put on it.

On my T8, the honing wheel is located by three holes in the drive wheel, into which "pins" on the honing wheel fit.  There are six such pins on the honing wheel, which would require unscrewing three screws holding the plastic honing disc to the stamped metal "hub" plate and rotating to the next pin.  There really would be only six positions, but that might be enough to find a good position. 

In order to gain infinite positions, one would have to loosen the nut that holds the drive wheel on.

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2019, 12:29:53 am »
My Tormek is a Supergrind.
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2019, 04:55:43 pm »
My Tormek is a Supergrind.

Is the honing wheel mounted differently than the more current models, T7 & T8?  I've not heard about a different mounting method, but it sure could be different.  If it is different, perhaps you could describe how and what that means for attempting to find a different position that reduces runout. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2019, 08:14:34 pm »
Here is what the handbook says about runout with the grinding wheel:

"The Stone is Not Running True
The stone should run true radially (up and down) within ±0.2 mm (total 0.4 mm or 0.016"). The axial (sideways) tolerance (which has no influence on the grinding result) is max ±0.5 mm (total 1.0 mm or 0.04").
1. If the runout exceeds these tolerances, check that the shaft has not been bent. Replace the shaft if necessary.
2. If the stone has run out of true after a period of use, or if you want less tolerance than above – true the stone with the Tormek Truing Tool TT-50."
(page 154)

I have not found any acceptable tolerances for the leather honing wheel or the profile honing wheels. I realize that wheel wobble with any wheel does not inspire confidence. What I do not know is does wobble in the leather honing wheel or the leather profile wheels actually cause a problem? The leather honing wheels are really for polishing rather than grinding. I am not saying that it is or is not a problem; I am just saying that I do not know and that it is not addressed in the handbook.

I found the second part of the quote interesting. In fairness to Tormek, all grinding stones and wheels are subject to being out of tolerance.

Rick, the SuperGrinds, all of the T4s, and most of the T7s have a plastic drive wheel. The redesigned drive wheels are zinc. While the new zinc drive wheel is a definite improvement, after working with both designs, I don't see how the improvements would effect runout.

I would still like to hear support's comments on this.

Ken

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2019, 09:10:40 pm »
Is the honing wheel mounted differently than the more current models, T7 & T8?  I've not heard about a different mounting method, but it sure could be different.  If it is different, perhaps you could describe how and what that means for attempting to find a different position that reduces runout. 

Rick
I took pictures but the file was too large to attach. Imagine a threaded shaft and a wheel with a hole in it. There is only one hole for the shaft and no other attachment points or alignment points. When you screw a large plastic nut down onto the honing wheel, it is pressed against a rubber wheel. The rubber wheel is what is turned and the honing wheel is turning with it. The honing wheel having no attachment points other than its center hole is free to rotate around the drive shaft. Upon loosening the plastic nut it can be turned in any amount, 1/8 turn or 1/360 turn. There is nothing to limit its change of position on the shaft when the plastic nut is not tight. See if this link works: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipPe8gmZB6rF1OL2QXL4DiQTwLKIHIzARG_sk5PX The photos are of the same wheel, one with and one without plastic nut.
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline kenc295

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2019, 02:56:35 am »
I've started a dialog with Tormek.  The shaft runs true, the grinding wheel runs true. If I mount just the drive wheel, it runs like a drunken sailor and since everything else references off the face of the drive wheel, the honing wheel and the profile wheels  run crooked. I tried all three honing wheel orientations, and both drive wheel orientations with no improvement.  I've sent Tormek several videos so we'll see what they suggest.  Surprisingly, they said that 1mm was just inside tolerance so it may be "that's the way it is", but time will tell.

If Tormek say that's the way it is I will try to rebore and sleeve back to original bore size the plastic wheel, but plastic is not the best material to try this on.  Or I'll just live with it, but it's kind of ugly.

Offline kenc295

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2019, 07:38:48 am »
After sending Tormek a few videos of the wobble, they agreed it's way out of spec and are sending me a replacement drive wheel.  How's that for customer service?  I guess I should've talked to them a long time ago, but no quibbles even with my machine being a good 7 or 8 years old.
Kudos to Tormek.

Offline kenc295

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Re: Happy tormek day!
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2019, 06:14:18 am »
The new drive wheel arrived from Tormek today. It's night and day better than the original one. Very happy!   :)