Author Topic: Do you need diamond honing compound?  (Read 1604 times)

Offline Sharpco

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Do you need diamond honing compound?
« on: March 01, 2020, 06:52:13 am »
Mix Jende diamond emulsion into the PA-70. It works.

https://youtu.be/Eebd8sPayZ8

That strop is suede like Tormek honing wheel.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2020, 12:20:34 pm »
Interesting idea, Sharpco. Does the PA-70 provide a better base for the diamonds? Do the diamonds provide more aggressive cutting for the PA-70?

Ken

Offline Sharpco

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2020, 01:08:47 pm »
Interesting idea, Sharpco. Does the PA-70 provide a better base for the diamonds? Do the diamonds provide more aggressive cutting for the PA-70?

Ken

I don't apply it on the leather wheel yet. But they were mixed very well. It's still likely to work well on the tormek.

Offline van

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2020, 06:09:58 pm »
Sorry Sharpco,
but the procedure that described the friend Wootz: one leather wheel with 1 micron diamond paste and the second with green chrome plus 0.25 micron diamond paste does not satisfy you as a final result?
Kindly yours

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2020, 09:10:52 pm »
I just bought a second Tormek leather wheel and conditioned the leather. 1µ paste should arrive soon. I want to see what results I get with this combination before I try anything finer. I plan on keeping the wheels in individual zip lock plastic bags and cleaning the knives thoroughly before and after each step.
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Offline Sharpco

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 09:58:39 pm »
Sorry Sharpco,
but the procedure that described the friend Wootz: one leather wheel with 1 micron diamond paste and the second with green chrome plus 0.25 micron diamond paste does not satisfy you as a final result?

Hello Van.

Knife Grinders(Wootz) is great knife sharpening expert. I respect their skills, but now I'm developing my own technique.

Low BESS scores are not always good. The edge must have micro serration for slicing, so that it lasts long. yes, I think 1 micron is too fine :)

Offline Sharpco

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 10:00:52 pm »
I just bought a second Tormek leather wheel and conditioned the leather. 1µ paste should arrive soon. I want to see what results I get with this combination before I try anything finer. I plan on keeping the wheels in individual zip lock plastic bags and cleaning the knives thoroughly before and after each step.

What paste did you buy? I tested diamond lapping paste but it's useless for sharpening.

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2020, 03:17:40 pm »
I just bought a second Tormek leather wheel and conditioned the leather. 1µ paste should arrive soon. I want to see what results I get with this combination before I try anything finer. I plan on keeping the wheels in individual zip lock plastic bags and cleaning the knives thoroughly before and after each step.

What paste did you buy? I tested diamond lapping paste but it's useless for sharpening.

I am trying this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MH0XP7G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Sharpen the knife blade
Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2020, 03:25:00 pm »
I just bought a second Tormek leather wheel and conditioned the leather. 1µ paste should arrive soon. I want to see what results I get with this combination before I try anything finer. I plan on keeping the wheels in individual zip lock plastic bags and cleaning the knives thoroughly before and after each step.

I will be very interested to hear what you find and think.  I am now using the SJ stone as the first step in honing and 1 micron diamond paste on a rock hard felt wheel as the final stage.  Both of these depend very heavily on precise angle control and different final angles for different steels, all based on Knife Grinders' work.

It would be very handy to have the 1 micron on the leather wheel side rather than having another wheel change on the stone side.  I wonder if the leather wheel will be hard enough to function well with the 1 micron media. 

I have visions of adapting the 10" felt wheel to go on the leather wheel side, but it would have to be off when grinding, which I don't always have to do with the leather wheel.  But, since I'm not using the leather wheel in the above process, it doesn't need to be there. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2020, 07:15:40 pm »
My one concern with this experiment is; will I be able to tell the difference between a knife honed on just the leather wheel with PA-70 paste and the knife followed up with 1µ paste.
My wife gets concerned when I start these sharpening tests as my right arm looks bare like I am going to enter a swim meet.  Worse case I will be out a few dollars for the paste and I will have a nice new leather wheel.
Sharpen the knife blade
Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2020, 07:28:32 pm »
I suspect you will be able to, but it probably is dependent on other steps in the process.  Such as those leading up to that final honing step with the 1 micron.  And on what sort of angle control you use in each of those steps.  Best way to tell would be to keep all else the same, except that last step PA-70 vs 1 micron.  Otherwise, there would be no telling. 

I know I get much better results with the SJ/ 1 micron on the felt wheel, using precision angle control, but I also know I didn't do some of those steps, or as carefully managed when using the PA-70 on the leather wheel. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline Sharpco

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2020, 08:49:03 pm »
I just bought a second Tormek leather wheel and conditioned the leather. 1µ paste should arrive soon. I want to see what results I get with this combination before I try anything finer. I plan on keeping the wheels in individual zip lock plastic bags and cleaning the knives thoroughly before and after each step.

What paste did you buy? I tested diamond lapping paste but it's useless for sharpening.

I am trying this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MH0XP7G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have it, and applied on leather wheel. But it didn't work.

Offline smurfs

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2020, 12:01:45 pm »

I will be very interested to hear what you find and think.  I am now using the SJ stone as the first step in honing and 1 micron diamond paste on a rock hard felt wheel as the final stage.  Both of these depend very heavily on precise angle control and different final angles for different steels, all based on Knife Grinders' work.

It would be very handy to have the 1 micron on the leather wheel side rather than having another wheel change on the stone side.  I wonder if the leather wheel will be hard enough to function well with the 1 micron media. 

I have visions of adapting the 10" felt wheel to go on the leather wheel side, but it would have to be off when grinding, which I don't always have to do with the leather wheel.  But, since I'm not using the leather wheel in the above process, it doesn't need to be there. 

Rick,

I bought off the shelf items to attach a split-lap felt wheel on the leather wheel side of the Tormek to sharpen serrations (as per Wootz' video). It takes minimal time to switch out the leather wheel and could work for you too.

All that's needed is a M12 bolt (length determined by felt wheel thickness), 2x M12 flat washers and a M12 40mm coupling nut. Here are a couple of pics.

Incidentally the only drawback I have encountered in my set up, which is due to small diameter of the felt wheel, is the grinding wheel gets in the way when tackling serrations on the left hand side of the blade. In these cases I have to remove the grinding wheel. It is not such an issue when the serrations are on the opposite side of course.

Andrew

Offline RickKrung

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2020, 02:52:56 pm »
...snip...
I bought off the shelf items to attach a split-lap felt wheel on the leather wheel side of the Tormek to sharpen serrations (as per Wootz' video). It takes minimal time to switch out the leather wheel and could work for you too.

All that's needed is a M12 bolt (length determined by felt wheel thickness), 2x M12 flat washers and a M12 40mm coupling nut. Here are a couple of pics.
...snip...
Andrew

Good idea, Andrew.  Using the off-the-shelf M12 coupler has great possibilities, as you have shown. How does it track in perpendicular rotation (wobble)?     

The felt wheel I use is 1" wide and has a 1" center hole, for which I've turned a bushing.  When mounting it on the grinding wheel shaft, I use wide flanges, that I machined to support it and hold it somewhat square/perpendicular.  I can see modifying the M12 couple by turning the hex off of a portion of it and using that as a mounting shaft, with the flanges. 

Curtis (cbwx34) came up with the idea of using the extension shaft from the Leather Profiling Wheels (LA-120) for that purpose (see photos).  I have the LA-120 and was planning on using the extension shaft.  I've not tried it as I've been so busy with other things and haven't been doing any sharpening for a while.  I have some garden tools in from a friend to do, but those can be handled on the leather honing wheel as I'm not going for the super sharp edges.  If I remember right, the felt wheel/bushing/flanges I have now fit the LA-120 extension shaft, but I may have to use some washers as spacers.  I also am a little concerned about the large flats on the extension shaft, but will not know until I try it out. 

The M12 coupler, etc. is a great, much less expensive way to do it.  Nice work. 

Rick
Quality is like buying oats.  If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price.

Offline cbwx34

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Re: Do you need diamond honing compound?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2020, 03:11:00 pm »

Rick,

I bought off the shelf items to attach a split-lap felt wheel on the leather wheel side of the Tormek to sharpen serrations (as per Wootz' video). It takes minimal time to switch out the leather wheel and could work for you too.

All that's needed is a M12 bolt (length determined by felt wheel thickness), 2x M12 flat washers and a M12 40mm coupling nut. Here are a couple of pics.

Incidentally the only drawback I have encountered in my set up, which is due to small diameter of the felt wheel, is the grinding wheel gets in the way when tackling serrations on the left hand side of the blade. In these cases I have to remove the grinding wheel. It is not such an issue when the serrations are on the opposite side of course.

Andrew

I like this... (the only reason I used the LA120 parts is because I had them).

Can you get a longer 'coupling nut' for more clearance?

Nice job.
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