Author Topic: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way  (Read 345 times)

Offline Kweeks

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Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« on: March 24, 2020, 07:56:18 pm »
First-timer here.  I just bought a lightly used but fairly old Supergrind 2000 - haven't even used it yet.  It is the rectangular version (i.e. no ramp on the front).  I cleaned the machine up the other day and I wouldn't say it is in new condition but not too far off.  Got it for $230 with a bunch of older but new-in-the-box jigs for an extra $20. Around here you just don't find used Tormeks of any flavor so I jumped on it because I knew it would not have lasted.  Now I am wondering if I did the right thing.  Tormek is currently offering "stones for life" for the next week.  Thinking about selling it and getting a new T4 and keeping a few of the accessories I got with the 2000.  I mention the T4 because of budget.  I would have a hard time justifying a T8 just now.  I do a little furniture stuff but want to eventually get into Lutherie which will require some very sharp hand tools. 

The accessories I got for $20 are:

SVH-60 - Square Edge Jig - (got 2 of these)
WM-100 - Angle Gauge
ADV-50D - Stone Truing Tool
SVD-180 - Gouge Jig (Can easily be upgraded to a 185 but I don't have a lathe)
SVS-32 - Small Tool Jig
SP-650 - Stone Grader

I have read that the truing tool is pretty much worthless.  Not sure about all the others other than the stone grader is good.

So my question really boils down to, "Is it worth having the larger machine regardless of whether or not it is older?"  Or should I sell the 2000 and go with the T4?

Any thoughts or opinions from those who have been there?

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 08:05:37 pm »
Keep the older Tormek. You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less. You won't get enough money out of the older Tormek to pay for a new T4 anyway. For the occasional user the T4 will do all you need but if it wasn't less of a tool, it wouldn't cost  less.
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 09:16:32 pm »
I think you picked up a good Tormek for a very good price. I would keep it if I was you. I say a very good price even though I feel most of the jigs are very outdated. You will eventually want to replace most of them. Tormek has redesigned and improved them.

Jeff and I have different opinions regarding the T4. In my opinion, it is more than capable of handling your needs. It is slightly smaller than the T8. I do not think of it as lesser. I compare the two Tormek models to trucks. If you need a truck (or a Tormek) for heavy hauling or grinding, or to pull a trailer, you will want the full size truck or Tormek with the big V8 engine. I can't imagine a lutherie tool which would require a V8.

I met a violinmaker from Hartville, Ohio. He has been a very contented Super Grind user for many years. I think you will be, too.

Keep us posted. Enjoy the journey.

Ken

Offline Ken S

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2020, 10:00:08 pm »
I should have included this in my last reply:

I would ignore the "free stones for life". Look at the offer carefully. The stones for the T8 must be worn down from 250 mm to 178 mm. I would be surprised if a lifetime of sharpening carbon steel lutherie tools would ever wear down a wheel that much. Terry Beach, who has probably sharpened more knives than anyone else on the planet, changes out his wheels at 220mm. He says that any less diameter than that slows him down. I doubt many users go below 200mm. I would predict that unless you are a busy professional sharpener or woodturner, you will never wear one wheel down to 178 mm.

Ken

Offline Kweeks

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 01:01:30 am »
I really appreciate the insights.  It really helps to hear from those who have been up the road a little farther.  I think I'll keep the 2000 as you both suggest.  I was not aware of the fine print on the free stones so that is definitely much less of an incentive than it was a few minutes ago.  Thanks again!

Offline RichColvin

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 01:07:03 am »
Scott,

Here’s my recommendation:

SVH-60 - Square Edge Jig - Keep at least one.  I use mine periodically.

WM-100 - Angle Gauge - Probably best to upgrade to a WM-200 if you would use this type of device.

ADV-50D - Stone Truing Tool - Give this to a museum.  Buy a TT-50 quickly.

SVD-180 - Gouge Jig (Can easily be upgraded to a 185 but I don't have a lathe)  - If doing carving or turning, upgrade to the SVD-186.  Significant upgrade.

SVS-32 - Small Tool Jig  - Keep it.  The replacement is wider, but this one will work for most tools.

SP-650 - Stone Grader  - Keep it.

Kind regards,
Rich
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Rich Colvin
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You are born weak & frail, and you die weak & frail.  What you do between those is up to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2020, 01:58:56 am »
Scott,

With the TT-50, make sure you get the latest 2019 revised version. This is the first item I would replace. You need it to keep your grinding wheel true.

With the gouge jig, When you decide to replace it, I would go for the latest version, the SVD-186R (Revised).

Essentially, I agree with Rich.

Ken

Offline GeoTech

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 02:08:13 am »
Does your Supergrind have the stainless steel driveshaft upgrade?
T-7, HTK-806, DBS-22, RB-180, LA-120, US-430, MH-380, Ultimate All-In-One Angle Tool

Offline Kweeks

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2020, 06:34:05 pm »
Sadly, it does not have the stainless steel shaft.  I have looked at the kit to upgrade it to the T7 standard but that is rather pricey.  I thought about just replacing the shaft but I noticed that the stone that I have is a different thickness where the shaft goes through it and therefore won't fit which answered my question as to why they would include the stone in the upgrade kit.  I have completely disassembled mine and the shaft on mine is not rusted at all.  I don't know how long it will stay that way, however.

Offline Kweeks

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2020, 06:42:38 pm »
Rich,

Thanks for the reply.  I had come to the exact same conclusions that you suggested as far as what to keep and what to get rid of.  But it's really nice to have them confirmed.  One additional thing that came in the $20 bundle was an extra leather honing wheel.  I'm going to keep that one as well.

Offline jeffs55

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2020, 08:31:29 pm »
I have a Tormek that is over 15 years old and does not have a stainless shaft or ezy lock nut. My shaft is not rusty and I have never had an issue with removing the grind stone. My washer is rusty but I am still using it, it doesn't hurt anything. I empty the water trough after each use and just throw the water out into the yard.
You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.

Offline john.jcb

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2020, 01:19:44 pm »
Rich,

Thanks for the reply.  I had come to the exact same conclusions that you suggested as far as what to keep and what to get rid of.  But it's really nice to have them confirmed.  One additional thing that came in the $20 bundle was an extra leather honing wheel.  I'm going to keep that one as well.

If you have any questions along the way don't hesitate to ask.
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Hone edge until perfection
Cut with joy and ease

Offline Ken S

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2020, 01:48:30 pm »
There are some good points in these replies.

Jeff makes a good point about rusted and not rusted shafts. In my opinion, most of the rusted shafts are from improper usage. Just as we change oil in vehicles, getting full life from a Tormek depends upon good housekeeping. The water trough should be dumped, rinsed and dried between uses. Any spilled water should be cleaned up. Bushings should be regreased periodically, including inspecting the shaft and hardware. I would also suggest replacing a rusted washer. I suspect that Jeff's Tormek is typical of the well maintained machines.

With your old ADV-50 truing tool. Assuming your diamond is in good condition, you can purchase the TT-50U. The U is for upgrade. The upgrade model lets you reuse your existing diamond and is priced about 2/3 the cost of the complete unit. (I believe this is what Rich did. I am the "museum" to whom Rich donated his ADV-50, minus diamond. I am glad to have it for historical reference.)

Incidentally, if you are looking for a home for your WM-100, "the museum" will gladly swap you a kenjig for it.

By all means, keep the spare leather honing wheel.

And, keep learning and asking questions.

Ken

Offline Kweeks

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2020, 05:32:08 am »
Ken, thanks for the tip on the TT-50U.  I didn't know about that option. That does save a few bucks.  My ADV-50 is brand new so the diamond is in perfect shape.  If you want the carcass for the museum you are welcome to have it.  I certainly have no need for it.

As for the WM-100, I'm not actually sure what a kenjig is, but it has to be worth more to me than the WM-100 especially since my WM-200 just arrived.  Let me know how to get them to you.

Offline Ken S

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Re: Probably an old question but maybe asked a different way
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2020, 03:18:19 pm »
Kweeks,
Check your messages later today.
Ken