Author Topic: Tormek online T2 class  (Read 402 times)

Offline Ken S

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6505
    • View Profile
Tormek online T2 class
« on: June 17, 2020, 01:10:14 pm »
Yesterday (June 16, 2020) I watched Tormek's live online class on the T2. Tormek wisely includes these online classes on their you tube channel. This is the sixth class in Tormek's new series. Each class lasts around forty five minutes, enough time to go well beyond a marketing sound bite and offer some in depth information for both beginners and experienced sharpeners. In my opinion, each class benefits from previous classes. I give the T2 class the highest marks to date.

I was pleased that the T2 received a separate class. Although the T2 is similar to the T8 and almost identical to the T4, the design purpose and technique are different. The T2 was specifically designed for inexperienced sharpeners in the restaurant trade to quickly and easily maintain sharp knives. The T4 and T8 are designed as general purpose sharpeners. Each design purpose can be both a blessing and a curse. In depth training, like these video classes, increases the blessing and minimizes the curse.

I was impressed that the class included both a solid introduction to the basic use of the T2 and some more sophisticated techniques. Some of these, like sharpening cleavers, food processor blades, and mandoline blades, probably evolved from customer feedback. This fits my long held belief that the Tormek is both simple enough to handle its basic functions and versatile enough not to be limited to them.

I have owned a T2 since it was first introduced. In truth, I have generally put it on the back burner, preferring to use the T8 or T4. After studying the online video class, I see a lot more potential for my T2. If I can find the space, I may even end up keeping my T2 in the kitchen as my "go to" for quick touch up sharpening.

Ken

Offline smurfs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2020, 10:32:09 pm »
I enjoyed the T2 class too and can see why the quick and simple sharpening process would immediately appeal to professional chefs interested in the DIY sharpening option.

It did occur to me when watching the video that the T2 may also be useful to professional sharpeners like myself, especially when sharpening low quality knives for customers who would be happy/willing to accept a good working edge e.g. BESS 250 to 400, at a much reduced price point, simply based on the quicker sharpening process. The market I think may benefit from a budget sharpening service are home chefs, who in my neck of the woods at least don't appear to own too many quality knives as I discovered while keeping busy during the lockdown :)

So the question I would like to pose to those who own a T2 and BESS tester is "what is the lowest BESS score achievable with the T2?". Anyone out there have the answer?

Cheers, Andrew

Offline Ken S

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6505
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2020, 01:42:28 am »
Interesting observations, Andrew. I suspect the knives in your neck of the woods are typical of most necks of the woods.

Watching the video class, what really made me see a market for a professional sharpener with a T2 was steak knives. If a restaurant had the mentioned hundred steak knives, and if sharp steak knives would give the impression that the meat was a better cut, I could see volume sharpening pricing as a win win situation.

I have both a T2 and a BESS tester. I will try to run some tests this weekend. I'll keep you posted.

Ken


Offline smurfs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2020, 08:51:01 am »
Many thanks Ken.

Interestingly I had a similar thought regarding the steak knives when they discussed them in the video.

I look forward to your test results as I think we may be in for a surprise i.e. BESS 100-200

Offline Ken S

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6505
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2020, 04:30:03 pm »
Andrew, just a quick test with the T2: Pre T2, 315 BESS; Post T2, 210 BESS.

In my opinion, this preliminary test indicates that the T2 can deliver adequate real world BESS numbers. I think with practice, BESS 150 seems a reasonable expectation. That won't win an international BESS competition, however, it is certainly a workable sharp edge for a knife in a real world kitchen, especially considering the efficient amount of time needed to achieve that edge.

I tested a new moderately priced Victorinox fibrox eight inch chef's knife using the Tormek recommended sharpening procedure. I only tested one place on the one knife one time. I'm sure my simple test would not even approach getting past first round eliminations with a real researcher like Wootz. When I think of the possibility of having to sharpen a hundred steak knives, I think my primitive test is enough of an indicator to keep testing.

Ken

Offline smurfs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2020, 08:16:43 pm »
Thank you for doing this exercise Ken.

The 210 BESS result falls just outside the "Very sharp" BESS classification which I'd imagine is sharper than what it was when new. To my mind this is a very good result and is more than adequate for the budget sharpening service I outlined.

I need to do a little more research but think it is highly likely I'll be getting a T2 to cater for the budget conscious.

Thanks again, Andrew

Offline BeSharp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2020, 03:44:13 am »
I’m not sure if it is sacrilegious to say this, but how about using paper wheels instead for fast sharpening of budget knives?

BESS: 225, 245. Faberware kitchen knife at 20 dps. Handheld, no jig (and I’m lousy at angle control!)


Offline smurfs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2020, 09:40:41 am »
I've parked the idea of getting a T2 for the moment based purely on the cost. The T2 plus coarse diamond wheel leaves little change from EUR1000 which makes it approximately twice the cost of a T4 / T8 with no accessories. At that price I think I'd be more inclined to get an additional 2xT8's simply to reduce the inconvenience/time taken to change wheels when sharpening!

BeSharp that's interesting and something I'm willing to give a try. Can you expand on the progression of paper wheel grits you use? Thanks
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 07:47:19 pm by smurfs »

Offline Ken S

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6505
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2020, 05:02:14 pm »
My grandson "liberated" my ipad this morning. Lacking my means of communication, I spent some quiet time rereading Wootz' Deburring book. (This book should be part of the Bible for every serious knife sharpener.) The following passage seems to apply to the topic of discount sharpening of low quality knives. I share it without any editorial comment:

"Myth - Cheap knives are easier to sharpen
Every so often we run across a customer asking for a discount on sharpening his junk knives, reasoning that the knives cost him less than would sharpening. Video gamers “collectible” knives are also in this category.
True that those inferior steels are easier to grind, but that shiny stainless steel is a pain to deburr. Getting rid of the burr these cheapo knives usually produce is so difficult that you can clean the edge apex only at the cost of rounding it.
In response to your deburring efforts the highly malleable burr just keeps bending back and forth like a foil leaf. To get rid of this crud of metal you take a higher and higher angle, gradually realizing that in the process of removing the existing burr you're also drawing new metal out past the apex and creating a new burr – the reason we call them mutant burr.
Overall, sharpening junk knives can be extremely frustrating."

Ken

Offline smurfs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2020, 07:36:43 pm »
Ken, I have Wootz's book and have read it several times so appreciate the problem of wire edges and low quality knives... I just overlooked the issue in my initial excited assessment of the T2.

I've managed to get a copy of the T2 manual and lo and behold on page 6 it states...

Quote
The burr can sometimes (depending on the quality of the steel) bend to one side and then the other, therefore it is sometimes better to hone alternately between the sides. If the burr is not honed away, the knife can feel dull, even though it is “freshly sharpened”.

So, in short, my idea to offer a T2 budget service for low quality knives will not fly as the problem of the malleable burr remains. That said I am glad I explored the idea. I will continue to follow Wootz's protocols using paper wheels and will look for efficiencies elsewhere.

Offline BeSharp

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: Tormek online T2 class
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2020, 05:25:25 pm »
I've parked the idea of getting a T2 for the moment based purely on the cost. The T2 plus coarse diamond wheel leaves little change from EUR1000 which makes it approximately twice the cost of a T4 / T8 with no accessories. At that price I think I'd be more inclined to get an additional 2xT8's simply to reduce the inconvenience/time taken to change wheels when sharpening!

BeSharp that's interesting and something I'm willing to give a try. Can you expand on the progression of paper wheel grits you use? Thanks

The Razor Sharp system just has two paper wheels, one with 180 grit I believe, and the other with the included honing compound (Jackson Lea C5 at 2 microns), as sold by Steve Bottorff and others.