Topic: New to Tormek and grading the SG stone fine

[JJP]

Hello Forum Members,

This will be my first post here. First of all I would like to thank all forum members for the invaluable information given. Its awsome to see that Tormek has such a great community.

I'm a chef by trade and have a strong interest in sharpening (chefs) knives. I have recently bought a Tormek T-8 and shortly thereafter a second hand T-2000. Both with a SG-250 stone.
I have been practicing sharpening knives and am quite comfortable now using the stone grader and the truing tool. Although I still am working on getting a consistent bevel and knife jig placement.

I know this has been discussed in previous posts but is anyone still using a diamond plate (1000 grit) to grade the SG stone? Im interested in first of all achieving as good results as possible with just the "standard" Tormek set up. SG and the leather honing wheel and compound. Im fortunate to have 2 SG stones so I'm thinking to grade one of the them to fine using a 1000 grit diamond plate for the final stage of sharpening and before honing? Any advice would be very welcome!

[chefknifeworks]

JJP - What a small World !!!
I am still an Executive Chef myself and Love my T8 - I've had it now since October.
I have the Black Oxide wheel - SB-250 and found that the stone grader "Glazed Over" and was ineffective.
SO - I tried a couple of CBN field sharpeners - but just recently got my diamond plates and LOVE THEM!!!
I really like how I can control the grit and level of abrasive my stone is now.
#200 to start, #400 and then #1000.
I run them in my knife jig (I don't have a plane iron currently like Dr. Vadim uses, but same principal.) to keep them square and level.

I am really impressed with using these to grade my stones.
To your last comment - absolutely. Keep one stone for the initial bevel set and shaping and then the second a little finer to finish.
You could also mount a felt wheel on the T2000 and use a diamond emulsion to finish out your knives!

Glad to meet another Chef / Tormek fan and user.
Good luck and hope to chat with you more.

Jason

[RickKrung]

I routinely use a 1000 grit diamond plate to grade my SG SJ wheels.  I only use the SG a that coarseness, except immediately after truing but it quickly settles back in to the finer level.   

Rick

[Drilon]

Please read the very helpful thread from wootz:

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3053.msg24823#msg24823

Regards,
Drilon

[JJP]

Thanks Jason for your reply. Great to hear from another chef sharpener! As I understand your post correctly you are using mainly the black sb stone and grading it with diamond plates? Do you find this stone works better for your needs then the sg stone? Are you using a felt wheel for deburring?
I am interested in creating an edge which is sharp and but mainly has great edge retention. I'm looking to achieve this first of all with a fairly basic set up. I think one can get a little lost in all the choices of stones, cbn, diamond wheels, accessories, etc, before getting really profficiant with the basic set up. A valuable comment Ken has made more often on this forum. Would be great chatting more about set up and sharpening of chefs knives Jason!

Thank you rick for your reply. So you solely use the sg stone graded with a 1000 grit diamond plate? I would be interested hearing what you other steps, sharpening process is.

Thanks drillon for referring to a great thread!

[chefknifeworks]

J, Cheers to Chef Sharpeners!!! I like that!
I purchased my SB (which is man-made and not natural) to be able to work on ceramics. I've never been brought one to sharpen by any of my customers, yet!
This was done from research prior to Choosing the Custom-T8.

Currently for deburring - I chose the composite wheel so I didn't have the mess from the paste - all over the chef knives - since they would be working with edibles and not wood.
In my shop, I also have bench strops with both sides, 2"x42" leather belt for bigger jobs and felt belts on my smaller Ken Onion BGA for controlled micron honing.

I am looking into the Paper Wheel sharpening system(s) that are out there currently to complete my "honing" systems.

As for wheels - the I will make about the CBN and Diamond wheels - is 1. they never lose diameter!, 2. Cut the metal differently and provide different results. (there is a lot of research and articles you can find here in this forum about all of this...) I have to 8" CBN wheels but I use them to take off metal to reduce bolsters and fix broken tips and edges.

Although it is nice to polish and shine the edge and bevel, that doesn't always translate to a "great" CHEF KNIFE experience. I prefer to stop around #600- #800 so that I have a toothy edge that will last all day in the kitchen with maybe a slight touchup with a hone if I have a heavy prep day and a lot of knife work.

In some of the forums and Guilds I am a member of, I have started discussions lately about "Knife Specific" edges. As a chef, you are fully aware of how we use different shapes and sizes depending on what we are cutting. So I am working that into my Sharpening System for my customers by asking them, what do YOU use this knife for???

Examples of this for me are:
1. Wusthof 10" cimeter I use ONLY for whole fish and sides - I sharpen to 15dps to #1000 and leather belt with white compound - as the knife doesn't come in contact with the cutting board that often - and I find I can take the skin off salmon with that angle and not tear through the skin.
2. Wusthoff Grand Prix 8" - I sharpen to #800 and finish on Tormek Composite Wheel at and edge of 17dps
3. Victorinox curbed boning knife - #800 and 13dps - great for skinning whole tenderloins - 189a and the #800 grit still has that "toothy edge" for cutting steaks out of the trimmed tender.

You get the picture. This perspective has sparked a lot of Q&A in my groups and it is starting to make sense to them...

Ken is an amazing resource of wealth and wisdom. I have "ran" into him on other forums and chats as well. I truly admire his outlook and willingness to share with us "new" sharpeners.

Sorry that was a lot. PM me if you want to talk more in depth about my systems and the successes I've implemented to overcome all  my mistakes and challenges!!!
Cheers!

[john.jcb]

The only time I really need the wheel graded coarse is if I am setting a new angle or if the edge is damaged. When sharpening a knife I have previously done I set the sharpening angle and begin sharpening at the midpoint of coarseness where the stone naturally settles. I will then grade it fine and finish. For honing I use the Front Vertical Base and hone at 1.5°-2° greater than the sharpening angle. This removes the burr and gives a longer lasting edge. I can achieve a very sharp edge using the standard SG wheel and leather honing wheel. If I want to go one step further I will hone on a separate leather wheel with 1µ diamond.

[JJP]

Thanks Jason and John for your reply!

Jason I might shoot you a personal message to discuss more about set up since it also discusses some non Tormek items. Sounds like you have a good thing going!
I really like the idea of building a database of which sharpening procedure was used for different (chefs) knives. My focus would be on knives used in a kitchen setting. One could learn from others how different steel types and blade geometries react to different abrasives used and angles.

John, I too have found that the standard SG wheel cuts quite a bit on coarse. It shows great versatility from coarse to fine, and im hoping to achieve an even finer setting using a diamond 1000 grit plate instead of the tormek stone.
Do you have any insight in what is gained in using a felt wheel to hone and debur with at a 1,5 to 2 degree steeper angle as opposed to the leather wheel?
Kind regards,

Jon

[john.jcb]

Thanks Jason and John for your reply!
........

John, I too have found that the standard SG wheel cuts quite a bit on coarse. It shows great versatility from coarse to fine, and im hoping to achieve an even finer setting using a diamond 1000 grit plate instead of the tormek stone.
Do you have any insight in what is gained in using a felt wheel to hone and debur with at a 1,5 to 2 degree steeper angle as opposed to the leather wheel?
Kind regards,

Jon

Jon, I have not used a felt wheel so anything I would say would be anecdotal. I do know that honing on the leather wheel at a larger angle does make an appreciable difference in sharpness and I think edge retention. I have seen others achieve Bess scores in the 80-90 range by doing this. Based on Wootz's sharpening chart I know my edges are at 130 or below as I can easily filet paper and I could shave arm hair against the grain. My wife asked me to stop that because she did not care for th mottled look of my arms.

[chefknifeworks]

Update: I found some amazing plates from AliExpress ( just under a month for shipping) and using the Guideline(s) that Dr. Vadim mentioned in a couple of his videos - I purchase an 80grit, 150grit and 320 grit - his method mentions the results of using the diamond plates are 3x the stated grit - for example the 80grit plate results in around 240grit on the stone.

I have the SB250 - and I cannot believe the difference!!! This method is a lot more "calculable" in results.

As a test, I used the 80grit plate and held it on the stone for about 10-12 seconds with medium pressure; sharpened a knife at this level; stropped on the composite wheel - and the knife was done! less than 3 minutes total. The edge was refined, burr removed and sliced through paper like nobodies business. The knife was done! No grading

I started again with another knife and did the 80grit and 150grit plates in succession - the results were even better.

The plates I purchased have a nice thicker rubber backing that clamped really well and were very sturdy in the jig.
I'll be ordering more soon!

[John S]

Could you possibly share the link to the diamond plates you are purchasing?  There are many sellers and I have no way of determining their quality.  Thank you.