Author Topic: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...  (Read 1045 times)

Offline darita

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« on: November 15, 2021, 10:57:35 pm »
I'm trying to use my Supergrind 2005 to do regrinds to finish on my guided knife sharpener.  Problem is, I set up the Tormek using KG app, for a 16*dps, but when I check the angle on my other sharpeners, it comes up 17.5*.  What am I doing wrong?

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2021, 12:35:24 am »
I'm trying to use my Supergrind 2005 to do regrinds to finish on my guided knife sharpener.  Problem is, I set up the Tormek using KG app, for a 16*dps, but when I check the angle on my other sharpeners, it comes up 17.5*.  What am I doing wrong?

What do you mean "when I check the angle on my other sharpeners, it comes up 17.5*"  What other sharpeners, and how do you check it?
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline darita

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2021, 12:37:51 am »
I have a TSProf and Wicked Edge.  I used the marker method and both were very close to 17.5*.

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2021, 01:22:10 am »
I have a TSProf and Wicked Edge.  I used the marker method and both were very close to 17.5*.

I'll go with "A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure." :)

But seriously, I don't necessarily think you're doing anything wrong.  When you start measuring with 2 different methods, it introduces a lot you'd have to check to see where the problem is.  Plus, I know I've said elsewhere, I've never considered the settings on the Tormek to be spot on accurate. (I wrote +- 1 degree somewhere).  (The difference between 16-17.5 deg. is 2mm).  For example, one potential source of difference is that your machine has to have the exact measurements as the machine KG used for everything to match.  And having experience with the W.E., the same applies there too, there are potential sources of differences, and accuracy has some variance.

You might try using a calculator, like the Calcapp (link in my signature) or the TormekCalc spread sheet, and measure directly to the wheel, to see if that makes a difference, this eliminates one possible difference (the machine measurements).  I've had good luck matching other devices... (I think it's a bit more accurate, but still has its limits).  You could also try setting the W.E. or TS Prof to 16 deg. and see if it is really that far off, or if after a swipe or two, it matches the bevel (if that makes sense).  And it probably goes without saying to double check all measurements, settings, etc. on all machines.

Or wait and see if someone has a better idea.   8)
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline darita

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2021, 01:54:58 am »
Thanks for the link.  I should also say that I have a Goniometer that gives a good ballpark and it seems to agree with my findings.  KG says their app doesn't work for Supergrind 2005.

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2021, 02:01:15 am »
Thanks for the link.  I should also say that I have a Goniometer that gives a good ballpark and it seems to agree with my findings.  KG says their app doesn't work for Supergrind 2005.

Well, if that's the case, measure directly to the wheel and it'll work, although I'm not sure what the difference is between a 2000 and 2005.  (Ken?)
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline Ken S

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7195
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2021, 04:37:07 am »
CB,

My oldest Tormek is a T7, so I am guessing about the Supergrind 2005. Tormek used at least two housings in that general time period, one with a vertical front, and one with a slant front.

Personally, I have never understood the benefit of measuring from the frame. I generally use the kenjig, which is based on Dutchman's tables and uses the grinding wheel as the reference point. In this case, the model used does not matter.

You will probably want to continue using the Knife Grinders software. In that case: Make sure you are measuring from a consistent point on the frame. I would mark the spot with a piece of electrical tape or mark it with a Sharpie.

You will need to change one of the three variables (Projection, Distance, or bevel angle). I would leave your settings as is on your computer device. When you measure from the top of the support bar to the frame, set your calipers to three millimeters less than indicated by the program. Sharpen a knife and measure the angle. Three mm less should get you close. If the angle is now 13 or 14 degrees, add one millimeter. (-2mm instead of -3mm) Make a label of your final correction.

Follow the same procedure to measure your honing wheel setting.

These procedures should be "one and done", not needing to be done with every knife.

Keep us posted.

Ken

Online tgbto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2021, 12:10:47 pm »
I 100% agree with Ken and cbwx. I haven't figured out yet why people keep measuring to the housing when it's so much easier to measure to the wheel. A basic set of calipers will do the trick well within reasonable tolerances. Plus you can check your wheel at different points to see if you have a significant change in distances, and therefore need truing.

It's convenient, it removes a few error sources, does not depend on how your machine compares to the one belonging to the calculator designer, does not require to find a spot on the housing in between sleeves and knobs and the like ... What's not to like ;)

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2021, 02:14:18 pm »
CB,

My oldest Tormek is a T7, so I am guessing about the Supergrind 2005. Tormek used at least two housings in that general time period, one with a vertical front, and one with a slant front.


Yeah, I remembered this after I posted.  Problem is, they're all marked "Supergrind 2000", from what I can tell.  :(

Thanks for the link.  I should also say that I have a Goniometer that gives a good ballpark and it seems to agree with my findings.  KG says their app doesn't work for Supergrind 2005.

I would be interested, since you have a Goniometer, if measuring directly to the wheel improves your results between the two sharpeners, if you're willing to give it a shot.
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 02:21:57 pm »
I 100% agree with Ken and cbwx. I haven't figured out yet why people keep measuring to the housing when it's so much easier to measure to the wheel. A basic set of calipers will do the trick well within reasonable tolerances. Plus you can check your wheel at different points to see if you have a significant change in distances, and therefore need truing.

It's convenient, it removes a few error sources, does not depend on how your machine compares to the one belonging to the calculator designer, does not require to find a spot on the housing in between sleeves and knobs and the like ... What's not to like ;)

Don't get me started....   ;D
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline darita

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2021, 04:24:10 pm »
By "measuring to the wheel", what do you mean?  The KG app does not have a variable for that.  What formula are you guys using?

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 04:34:12 pm »
By "measuring to the wheel", what do you mean?  The KG app does not have a variable for that.  What formula are you guys using?

https://connect.calcapp.net/?app=qq0pg0#/
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators

Offline Dutchman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Ton N.
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2021, 09:48:55 am »
By "measuring to the wheel", what do you mean?  The KG app does not have a variable for that.  What formula are you guys using?
Maybe you missed the background as explained in the link in my signature.  ;)

Offline darita

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I'm a sharp craftsman!
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Fprmula Question...
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2021, 03:11:53 pm »
Got it.  Thanks.  I'm going to try the Calcapp Calculator and see how that makes a difference.

Offline cbwx34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
  • Question Everything
    • View Profile
Re: KnifeGrinders Formula Question...
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2021, 03:20:52 pm »
By "measuring to the wheel", what do you mean?  The KG app does not have a variable for that.  What formula are you guys using?
Maybe you missed the background as explained in the link in my signature.  ;)

Good point.

Maybe a good place to add Rick's guide for measuring to the wheel (especially while learning)...



https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=4551.msg32530#msg32530
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 05:19:32 pm by cbwx34 »
Knife Sharpening Angle Calculators:
Calcapp Calculator-works on any platform
or, a couple of iOS Calculators