Author Topic: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.  (Read 6815 times)

Offline sbirdranch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« on: February 06, 2010, 06:19:10 pm »
I (and I stress 'I') must be doing something wrong!

I am a newb to the t7 but not the concept of grinding/honing.
I cannot get the wheel to cut at a rate that is acceptable.  I just spent an hour on one 6 inch jointer blade.  My neck and back are killing me (machine height is low as demonstrated and specified.).  When doing chisels it seems to work ok, but with the planer/jointer blade attachement it is taking forever.

The blade I just did was dull, and had been hand hones low on one corner.  No major dings.

The only way I can get it to cut with the jig at any acceptable rate is to dress the wheel rough.  Seems like I'll go through the wheel in too big a hurry to be the right approach.  I freshen the wheel with the stone and it is a little better.

I need some serious help on this one.  What am I missing.  I'm concerned that the wheel looks to load up very quickly.  I'd post a pic. but don't see how on this site.

Someone save me...I want to love my T7.

P.

Offline Jeff Farris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2010, 08:21:35 pm »
When doing high speed steel it may be necessary to use the stone grader (coarse side) every 5 - 10 minutes.  Use the corner of the grader, instead of the flat surface. 
Jeff Farris

Offline sbirdranch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2010, 08:37:27 pm »
Thanks for the reply....After my first post, and having read another place you suggested the corner, I did just that and it helped a lot.  I was just afraid of being too aggressive.  Carborundum sticks on a regular grind wheel can make a dent in a hurry.

You answered the 'how often to stone' question...how about this...for the average non-commercial guy, how long should I expect the grinding wheel to last?  1yr....10yrs.  Just a guess, please.

P.

Offline ionut

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 07:40:14 pm »
Hi P.

It is weird, I did mine pretty fast and with no crazy effort required, my machines are mounted on a bench the normal height so I usually get on a box, but I never experienced this with my blades. Probably the quality of the steel in my blades is not so good compared with yours.
Try this, while  grading your stone lower the water trough until no water reaches the stone, make sure the stone is well wetted though before that. Start grading with moderate pressure, you will see a muddy slurry building up, In probably a quarter of the time or even less for normal grading you will be done. Put the trough back and let the wheel get clean and check the surface of it. It works great for me, it cleans the stone of glazing and any metal particles fast, and I never needed to jump on the grader, Don’t do it as much and as hard  as you would normally do it when you grade while the stone is in the water. Better do it in smaller increments until you are happy whit how the stone cuts.

Thanks,
Ionut


Offline Jeff Farris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 01:02:09 am »
Sorry I missed the follow up question a few weeks ago.

It depends a great deal on how you're using the machine.  For private non-commercial use primarily on straight edge tool (chisels, plane irons, planer blades, etc.) I would estimate 8 to 10 years.

Ionut.  I'll have to try your grading method.  My initial impression is that it doesn't sound like a good idea, but I'll give it a try.
Jeff Farris

Offline ionut

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 02:04:46 am »
Hi Jeff,

Let me know what you think, for me it cleans and dresses the stone in no time compared with the normal way with less effort and after that I can feel a difference in how it cuts.
When I had to apply lots of pressure I always ended with a stone out of square.

Thanks,
Ionut


Offline Elden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Jesus is Lord!
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 08:11:55 pm »
Jeff,
I figure you answered directly to Ionut on this. I am curious what your opinion was (is). I know that I could go try it, but was wondering about your thoughts.
Elden

Offline Rob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
  • London, England
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 08:52:13 pm »
Wow I missed that thread

That looks like a great idea, specially when doing planar blades

Best.    Rob.

Offline Ken S

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6690
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 12:17:42 pm »
This post brings up a couple side issues: 

While the Tormek removes much of the hard manual labor of sharpening, having good working conditions is very important.  Having the machine at a comfortable working height is critical to long term success.  I have found the same thing when using kitchen knives as well as when sharpening them.  Find a comfortable height and keep your Tormek there.

Another overlooked important issue is working in good light.  I had a lot of difficulty using the anglemaster gage until I set up my Tormek outside one day.  (I was working out of a temporary garage shop at the time.) The proper light made all the difference.

I fully intended to sharpen my jointer blades (4").  A local repair shop replaced the bearings, and while there, had the blades sharpened.  So, I have not gone the route of the marathon jointer blade sharpening.  for those of you who have gone that way and had problems, did you change out the water during the operation?  I have been amazed with the amount of swarf generated by sharpening just a couple chisels, and the amount of steel clinging onto the magnet.  Clean water couldn't hurt, and it might keep the stone cleaner and working better.

Ken

Offline Rob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
  • London, England
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 01:13:13 pm »
My marathon experience with planar blades (12" HSS) has its final instalment to come. I've now had the blackstone delivered and look forward to retrying with it installed

I hope I have a realistic expectation based on Jeff's feedback

My issue with emptying the water tray is that when I was grinding my planar blades, it wasn't the metal that clogged the tray, it was sloughed off  ceramic from continually activating the wheel. At the end of the trip I had reduced the SG diameter by over 5mm.  That's more than at any previous time in its history with me

I feel that if you're constantly emptying the tray and re activating rather than actually grinding then you've reached the point where the tool isn't fit for that particular purpose.

I appreciate I eventually got the job done but the cost in both time and lost grindstone was completely unacceptable to me and I'm pretty reasonable. I also love my Tormek and would err on giving it the benefit of the doubt

I sincerely hope the blackstone works for my next outing with the planar blades or I will have had my first real disappointment in five years. It's never let me down before. Every where you read, including Jeff's own advice is that planar blades of HSS are its most challenging job. My hope is that the blackstone was really designed to overcome this. That's what the marketing says, my upcoming test will soon give me a personal perspective. As I said before, the setup whilst fiddly wasn't what blew me away, just the total inability to actually cut HSS at anything close to an acceptable rate.  I'm really not exaggerating when I say the blade was really grinding the stone not the other way around :-)

The blackstone has to be better.  I'll report back here with the results but it may be a few weeks because I'm waiting on delivery (from Canada) on the Oneway Multijig. It's a brilliantly designed dial gauge with magnetic base to aid in ultra accurate plane blade height setup. Once that arrives ill pop the knives back out and regrind with the new wheel
Best.    Rob.

Offline Herman Trivilino

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1989
  • Houston, Texas
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 09:52:42 pm »
I feel that if you're constantly emptying the tray and re activating rather than actually grinding then you've reached the point where the tool isn't fit for that particular purpose.

I suspect that this is the reason the specialty grindstones were introduced.

I personally have used nothing other than the original grindstone, but then I don't sharpen HSS.

Origin: Big Bang

Offline Rob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
  • London, England
    • View Profile
Re: SOOOO Slow...What am I doing wrong.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 10:36:34 pm »
Hi Herman

Me too mostly until I did the planar blades. I do sharpen and shape HSS turning gouges too and I've used the original stone with no problems in those. It's just been the planar knives which have been too much for the old wheel
Best.    Rob.